Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF

[McG]

Just how many sexual offence investigations do the MPs get a year?

There is probably a statistically predictable value corresponding to size of the base and whether or not the PMQs are policed by the municipality or by MPs (which is not standardized across all bases), but I have no idea what that value nor reality might be.

 

[QV]

Just how many sexual offence investigations do the MPs get a year?

They were few to my recollection, but that was before the recent sexual misconduct definitions.

 

[Haggis]

They were few to my recollection, but that was before the recent sexual misconduct definitions.

There's a difference between sexual misconduct, as defined by the DAOD, and sexual assault, as defined by the Crim Code. Nobody is going to jail for an off-colour joke, even if it could cost you a promotion or your career.

 

[Booter]

It’s again worth noting sexual assault has an abysmal conviction rate and victims will find the off base response just as underwhelming.

40 percent of the cases go from police to crown, about 60 percent of that 40 percent go to court and then just under half result in a conviction of any sort.

So of a hundred cases- 12 will get a conviction of any sort.

At least in the new system they can’t blame the MPs but they really aren’t the issue when you look at numbers like that

 

[lenaitch]

She complains to civilian police and they decline to investigate.

Decline to investigate or not finding a prima facie criminal offence? Declining to investigate would be unusual and in most provinces the victim would have recourse to complain to a civilian oversight authority.

Typically, police would not keep a victim's or suspect's employer in the loop one way or the other, but seeing as the alleged offence took place on the employer's property, I can see the foundation for a formal agreement between the involved levels of government or agencies. In terms of sharing or turning over investigative files, turning it over to someone in the CoC might be problematic from a privacy point of view (I say this not knowing all the ins and outs of the various privacy laws). If I was an MP and wanted a civilian police file for investigative purposes, I would be inclined to cover all my bases by getting judicial authorization via a warrant/production order.

 

[QV]

There's a difference between sexual misconduct, as defined by the DAOD, and sexual assault, as defined by the Crim Code. Nobody is going to jail for an off-colour joke, even if it could cost you a promotion or your career.

No shit.

 

[lenaitch]

I believe Cold Lakes PILT saga and court decisions are available and continuing. They are the most recent and largest I am aware of. Theirs is ongoing and endorsed by the federation of municipalities. They are my closest example I have some working knowledge on.

The property valuations are argued to be too low- and the supporting arguments are the access and drain to services funded by the municipality, traditionally policing isn’t a service used by the base- it will be included once this starts. Even by a small margin- the argument will be that it is one more thing and the outdated PILT amounts are wrong- hence the disputes.

In Ontario, if it were to involve a municipal police service, it or, more accurately, its police services board, would be free to try and negotiate some sort of cost recovery mechanism with DND if they felt it was an onerous drain on its taxpayers. If it involves a municipality policed under an OPP contract, push come to shove I can see the province declaring that said costs are not part of the contract costing formula and fall under the 'provincial responsibility' component. I think it would have to be a big 'push'. The province used to cover the policing costs for provincial correctional facilities but no longer does and the town near where we used to live is rightly pissed.

The OPP has a 'Pen Squad' in Kingston for the federal institutions in the area which includes, to the best of my recollection, a member of Kingston PS and a couple of members of CSC. It used to have a couple of RCMP members but as far as I know no longer does. It's been a long time since I had anything to do with them but have no recollection that the province received any federal funding other than the cost of the federal employees involved.

Other than - maybe - a bit of rush of historic cases during transition, I honestly don't see a huge impact on any one police service/detachment. In Ontario, there are specific training requirements under the Act for any members conducting a SA investigation (and others).

 

[Jarnhamar]

Decline to investigate or not finding a prima facie criminal offence? Declining to investigate would be unusual and in most provinces the victim would have recourse to complain to a civilian oversight authority.

Typically, police would not keep a victim's or suspect's employer in the loop one way or the other, but seeing as the alleged offence took place on the employer's property, I can see the foundation for a formal agreement between the involved levels of government or agencies. In terms of sharing or turning over investigative files, turning it over to someone in the CoC might be problematic from a privacy point of view (I say this not knowing all the ins and outs of the various privacy laws). If I was an MP and wanted a civilian police file for investigative purposes, I would be inclined to cover all my bases by getting judicial authorization via a warrant/production order.

We can make a new ministry and expand it to all government work places. The Ministry of Allegations. Every police file gets copied to your employer whether a crime occurred or not. I dig it

Short of that we could always bring in a union for CAF members. It doesn't sound like it caused any issues with the RCMP that I've heard of. Would be a good way to report bad behavior and have it looked into from a professional standards approach.


SNCO taking a students cell number off their course file and texting them on the weekend to see how the homework is going? Report it to the union instead of his buddy the course WO.

 

[Furniture]

It’s again worth noting sexual assault has an abysmal conviction rate and victims will find the off base response just as underwhelming.

40 percent of the cases go from police to crown, about 60 percent of that 40 percent go to court and then just under half result in a conviction of any sort.

So of a hundred cases- 12 will get a conviction of any sort.

At least in the new system they can’t blame the MPs but they really aren’t the issue when you look at numbers like that

Allegations of sexual assault have an abysmal conviction rate...

Unless we are dropping that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing we've been messing around with for the last couple of centuries.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Short of that we could always bring in a union for CAF members. It doesn't sound like it caused any issues with the RCMP that I've heard of. Would be a good way to report bad behavior and have it looked into from a professional standards approach.


SNCO taking a students cell number off their course file and texting them on the weekend to see how the homework is going? Report it to the union instead of his buddy the course WO.

Except you could end up calling someone who took the union position just to get the same phone numbers and is also friends with the SNCO........would not be the first time someone said "Let's go have a drink and talk about your situation". Anything you draw up that has humans involved will be wrought with human weakness's.

 

[mariomike]

Short of that we could always bring in a union for CAF members. It doesn't sound like it caused any issues with the RCMP that I've heard of.

Not to agree / disagree, as I am not an expert.

I think most police in Canada are unionized. Police , like any other emploees , can't be drafted , and can quit anytime.

But , wouldn't it be different for the CAF in that , although it hasn't happened since 1945, there may come a time "during hostilities or during a time of war as declared by the Government of Canada" when civilians are drafted into the CAF.

When, like it or not, Reservists are involuntarily activated to full-time and, like it or not, may be sent out of Canada.

VR's will / may be put on hold until "cessation of hostilities".

If that is how it would work?

What good will a union do then?

 

[daftandbarmy]

SNCO taking a students cell number off their course file and texting them on the weekend to see how the homework is going? Report it to the union instead of his buddy the course WO.

I might be getting too old, but would the OC care about this and/or do anything about it?

If that actually happened I'm guessing that SNCO should be in a world of hurt IMHO...

 

[Halifax Tar]

SNCO taking a students cell number off their course file and texting them on the weekend to see how the homework is going?

You're saying this because it happened, aren't you ?