Shilo soldier suffers gunshot wounds during training exercise

[HItorMiss]

SMT- Question why did they tell us it will cause wound scaring that will need to be debrided (sp?)

Your right you wont get charged for using it but questions will be asked on how one came to be in possesion of it if I am not mistaken. I freely admit I am no expert on the legalities of the use of QC as I am not a medic.

As for Tourniquets they surely can be used at anytime if you think you have to. "Life over Limb" and seeing as you have 9 hours or so before anything serious will occur in Canada that is more then enough time to get someone to a medical facility.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Well thanks for clearing up the medical side.  I was going by what our MO told us so who am I to question him.  I was impressed by the amount of heat produced but will bow to your experience on the issue.

 

[Armymedic]

SMT- Question why did they tell us it will cause wound scaring that will need to be debrided (sp?)

Brace yourself for the answer....

Ignorance. Unfortunately that is what happens when you teach out of book without practical experience.

Since though, much hands-on experience and mutiple uses has shown me otherwise.The wound may still need to be debrided, but not solely because of the QC.

p.s.- 6 or less hours of continued constriction by a tourniquet on an injured limb (longer has been used in surgery on previously uninjured limbs)....thats why we tell you to attempt loosening at around 2 hrs. Besides after an hour the pain of the tourniquet itself may be unbearable.

 

[HItorMiss]

I bow to the master on the length of time for the constriction of the limb.

As for the pain of the tourniquet being more then the pain of the wound, I can tell you from personal experience that it hurt more then wound immediately on application.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

To St. Michaels Medical Team,

I took a civilian Red Cross train-the-trainer First Aid course about a year ago and to say they emphasized NOT using tourniquets would be a dramatic understatement.


Matthew.  ???

 

[MediTech]

To St. Michaels Medical Team,

I took a civilian Red Cross train-the-trainer First Aid course about a year ago and to say they emphasized NOT using tourniquets would be a dramatic understatement.


Matthew.   ???

My unit doesn't frown on the use of them and feels that they are a useful tool.

 

[proudnurse]

Here's to a speedy recovery! Get well soon.

~Rebecca

 

[KevinB]

To St. Michaels Medical Team,

I took a civilian Red Cross train-the-trainer First Aid course about a year ago and to say they emphasized NOT using tourniquets would be a dramatic understatement.


Matthew.   ???

Military First Aid in a theatre of war is a tad different than civilian St. John's first aid

FWIW the first thing we pretty do is put a T on.

 

[TheHead]

Military First Aid in a theatre of war is a tad different than civilian St. John's first aid

FWIW the first thing we pretty do is put a T on.

And Ts have saved MANY lives.  I'd never use a T in the civilian world unless the guy was going to die.  In Afghanistan we used them always no matter what (Well of course there was exceptions) and they saved so many guys lives. 

 

[Armymedic]

Cdn Blackshirt,
There are huge differences between civilian and military prehospital medicine, right down to the basics of first aid.

The first being the mechanism of injury. Civilian accidents are more likely to cause blunt trauma injuries (veh accidents, falls), where as the goal of killing someone is to punch as many holes in them as you can (gun shot, shrapnel). So based on the mechanism of injuries, the focus of the initial care is somewhat different. Of course in both situations you still do make sure you will not become a casualty yourself, first. But then that is where the interventions differ.

In civilian prehospital care, airway is always the first because if you have no way to get air in and out, then nothing else works. There is not usually much life threatening external bleeding when you are involved in a rapid deceleration incident. Shock...which is what kills you, is cause primarily by either no oxygen getting to the blood, or because the blood is leaking internally.

In military prehospital medicine, with the primary injury being penetrating, airways are usually open, unless casualty is unconscious or that is where the injury is. It is the bleeding or loss of oxygen carrying red blood cells that will usually kill you. So the focus is to stop bleeding first. Then once the blood level is controlled, one can worry about making sure air gets in.

So you have 4 mins or less to get the bleeding under control. On extremity wounds, which account for 60% or more of all penetrating injuries on the modern battlefield. The only way to do that effectively almost 100% of the time is through the use of tourniquets, as the direct pressure method takes 5-15 mins to form a clot.

Also in First Aid, they teach direct pressure on top of the wound. That is not effective for penetrating trauma. To be effective the pressure must be on the bleeding site....inside the wound. Therefore, we teach people how to pack a wound and then use pressure dressing to ensure pressure is maintained.

Concepts which on the surface look similar, but in reality, to be truly effective, there are different ways to treat each different type of wound.

I think perhaps this would be a good time to resurrect or restart a TCCC or military medicine thread in the medical forum.

 

[The Bread Guy]

A bit more information on the injured trooper, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.

Soldier shot during training at CFB Shilo in Manitoba was reservist
Canadian Press, 20 May 07

BRANDON, Man. (CP) _ A soldier who suffered at least two gunshot wounds during a live-fire training exercise at CFB Shilo is a reservist with the Winnipeg-based Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders of Canada, a military spokeswoman said Sunday.

The man remained in stable condition at Brandon Regional Health Centre, said Lieut. Amber Bineau. His initial condition was serious but stable.

He was injured Thursday during small arms practice with members of the Shilo-based 2nd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, said Bineau, a spokeswoman for the battle group.

The incident happened on the base's training grounds.

A comrade administered first aid after the unidentified soldier was hit.

``The first priority when the injury occurred was to make sure the soldier received immediate first aid and was recovered to the hospital,'' Lt.-Col. David Corbould, commanding officer at the base, told Global TV.

``Then we initiate an investigation, and that's ongoing, where we collect statements from everybody that was there, look at the range setup and make sure all the established training safety procedures were being followed.''

Military officials have not yet said if the soldier was hit with fire from his own weapon or one fired by another soldier.

He is among a wave of soldiers preparing to be deployed to Afghanistan in January and February of 2008, Bineau said.

Following an incident of this kind, she said, the military normally doesn't release the person's name, age or other personal details.

A number of bodies are participating in the ongoing investigation as a matter of protocol, Bineau said, citing military police, the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service, and the soldier's unit as examples.

``The investigation will look into what happened and then, from there, we determine a course of action based upon the results,'' she said. ``The primary concern at this time is the member and the member's next of kin.''

CFB Shilo is 35 km southeast of Brandon.

 

[BernDawg]

Get well soon soldier. 

 

[Highland Laddie]

Update: Soldier is doing well, and is recovering at the Brandon Hospital. Will be moved back to Winnipeg when medical conditions permit.

Big kudos to 2VP on this. Family has been very well supported.