Single mom now facing medical release from military

[daftandbarmy]

This happened a lot with other things as well.  So when I read these stories and the mention what a recruiter said to them I take it with a grain of salt.  I nearly lost it once with an applicant that argued with me about the fact that med tech support never deployed to the field.  It turned I to a one way conversation very quickly but he was never convinced about anything I said or showed him.  He just never wanted to go to the field and convinced himself that he knew better.

As a recruiter, can you not then refuse their application and go tell them to find a job at the Subway down the road?

 

[mariomike]

I nearly lost it once with an applicant that argued with me about the fact that med tech support never deployed to the field. 

The Applicant must not have read the online Med Tech job description.

He just never wanted to go to the field and convinced himself that he knew better.

Hopefully, the Interviewer would discuss that under "your understanding of the job you selected."

•Read the section “Life in the CF”
•Research the jobs you have listed on your application.
•Prepare answers to the following common questions:
◦Where does basic training take place? For how long?
◦Where does the occupational training take place for the jobs you are interested in?
◦How long will you be in training before you are completely qualified?
◦What is the role of your preferred job in the Forces?
◦Where might you serve?
◦What do you like about the jobs you listed on the application?
◦What are the negative elements of the jobs you listed on the application?
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100

 

[Messerschmitt]

As a recruiter, can you not then refuse their application and go tell them to find a job at the Subway down the road?

You can always "lose" it. Had several friends who's applications were "lost" and they were not the annoying kind of folks. Also, I've had my share of experiences with recruiters and they definitely don't know it all and often make mistakes in what they say (and genuinely losing paperwork, or maybe it get's lost in the system, who knows). So it's a 2-way street.

 

[mariomike]

You can always "lose" it. Had several friends who's applications were "lost" and they were not the annoying kind of folks. Also, I've had my share of experiences with recruiters and they definitely don't know it all and often make mistakes in what they say (and genuinely losing paperwork, or maybe it get's lost in the system, who knows). So it's a 2-way street.

Those sound like clerical errors, rather than an applicant not reading the job description.

 

[Starlight1]

While I feel for the situation these 2 women have found themselves in, and can see that there was much in the process beyond their control, what I fail to understand is the victim mentality and little personal accountability.  When your chosen career becomes no longer compatible with a family life that is acceptable to you, there are choices to be made.  If you can't meet the requirements of the job, it's time to consider other options.  Seriously.  Many of us have done that.  I released from the Reg F when my kids were small as it was in the family's best interests.  I came back to Res F and eventually Reg F when I could meet the expectations.  I'm not a single parent, but with a Reg F spouse, there is a lot of time when you have to parent alone for extended periods.  Robust family care plans are crucial if you don't have the other parent around. 

Clearly these are multiple factors in each of these cases, and the organization/CoC has been less than helpful according to the articles.  I have issue with what I see is a sense of entitlement that the system owes them something (aside from all the benefits of a medical release) when they are no longer able to do the job.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Those sound like clerical errors, rather than an applicant not reading the job description.

Or the actions of conscientious recruiters who know that someone isn't suitable, but don't have the formal tools to say 'no, go back to the skateboarding park', or words to that effect.

 

[CountDC]

I  only know personally one single person that was adversely affected by the military to the point of needing to choose between it and their child.  That person was male with custody of his daughter that restricted him to the province the mother lived in.  When the military posted him out and would not change it when  asked he submitted his release.  He didn't cry about it or blame the military as he understood the military can not accommodate everyone's wishes.  He transferred to the reserves and took a class b job so he could have it his way.

 

[gryphonv]

I  only know personally one single person that was adversely affected by the military to the point of needing to choose between it and their child.  That person was male with custody of his daughter that restricted him to the province the mother lived in.  When the military posted him out and would not change it when  asked he submitted his release.  He didn't cry about it or blame the military as he understood the military can not accommodate everyone's wishes.  He transferred to the reserves and took a class b job so he could have it his way.

I know personally many people who's families ended in divorce, lost custody of children, etc due to complications from Military Service.Some people make it work, but in the end the military lifestyle still puts a lot of stress on families. It's not always the main factor but it almost always is a contributing factor.

I personally will never think bad on a person for deciding that their family is more important then their career.

 

[CountDC]

but in the end it is a matter of personal choice.  I hate it when people blame the military for all their issues when it is a matter of choice.  We choose to stay or go on a regular basis based on our wants,  needs and own situation. On a regular basis we assess our situation to determine what is best for us and make our choice.  I have had occasion where release was a close choice based on the situation I was in but then a change occurred that resulted in me staying.

I am also not overly fond of the "I am a single parent" mantra.  There is only so long that card can be played after becoming a single parent.  At some point you do have to straighten up and determine the plan ahead whether it is to find another career or someone to care for your child while you are away.  If you can't find someone then there is short term possibilities such as compassionate postings to help but it is still something you have to find the solution for.

 

[gryphonv]

I agree, ultimately they need to be responsible for their own decisions.

But I think the crux of the problem starts at recruitment. We have had recruiters that tell applicants things that may not be completely true, many of these applicants dont find out how untrue those statements were until well into their trade training. We have a political push trying to promote how good we are to single parents among other things.

I'm not saying all recruiters are like this, but it is far more common to hear about lies or misinformation recruitment told some applicants.

This situation was different because she became a Single Mom after she was already in, probably something outside of her control.

In the end the military is a great career but it can be very difficult for some more than others. We shouldn't sugar coat this just to get people to sign up.

 

[daftandbarmy]

In the end the military is a great career but it can be very difficult for some more than others. We shouldn't sugar coat this just to get people to sign up.

You mean like our recent recruiting campaign?

Canadian Armed Forces targets millennials with new campaign

Effort marks the organization's first recruitment campaign in four years

Drummond says the armed forces aims to hire 10,000 new recruits per year and has to do so by reaching millennials who are looking for personal fulfillment through work. “Luckily the armed forces is truly a job that does that.”

http://marketingmag.ca/advertising/canadian-armed-forces-targets-millennials-with-new-campaign-137710/

 

[gryphonv]

You mean like our recent recruiting campaign?

Canadian Armed Forces targets millennials with new campaign

I haven't watched the video or really followed the new campaign, but in the end we do need to recruit people, and unfortunately Millennials will have to be the biggest pool of recruits. And recruiters have to 'sell' it. I just feel it can be done better, maybe have a little less applicants but also have less people who believe things that are simply not true, and or feel they were lied to.

A big problem I've noticed is the outward migration after people do their initial contracts, I'd rather find ways to keep more of those people in vs need to replace them with green recruits. I think the best way to that starts with being as brutally honest as possible during recruitment.

 

[Journeyman]

..... she became a Single Mom after she was already in, probably something outside of her control.

Damn you, Immaculate Conception.

Crusades, assorted Inquisitions, the Reformation.... and now, this.  When will the madness end?

 

[TCM621]

The single biggest thing we can do to recruit quality people is make the process shorter. I was processed in 2 months when everything was by paper or message traffic, 8 months to a year is unacceptable. The quality applicants have options and while some, who really, really want to be in the forces, will stick it out most will move on to another job opportunity because they need a job now, not a maybe in a year.

When you add in huge wait tines for courses, you are getting people at the operational units that are jaded towards the CF. It took me more than a decade to really and truly jaded. These people don't want to stay in past their initial. Again the good ones have options, so we end up with people who really want to be here and people who can't think of anything better to do. Look around your workplace and see what you think the ratio of the former to the latter is.


Back on topic a bit:

Can anyone tell me how a family care plan is supposed to help? It seems to be the go to response when command wants you to do things that have a potentially devastating effect on your family. I can plan all I want to but at a certain point, barring emergency, i just can't afford to have daycare on 24 standby. My wife can't up and leave her job when it is convenient for the military (although if it is an operational requirement, she does her part to make it work).

 

[gryphonv]

Damn you, Immaculate Conception.

Crusades, assorted Inquisitions, the Reformation.... and now, this.  When will the madness end?

Becoming a mother is quite in her control, becoming a single mother is in the control of the sperm donor.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Becoming a mother is quite in her control, becoming a single mother is in the control of the sperm donor.

I'd say women can be equally guilty of breaking up relationships.

 

[Journeyman]

Becoming a mother is quite in her control, becoming a single mother is in the control of the sperm donor.

Yes, and we're now on our fourth page of suppositions where little is known, but it's OK to say that Recruiters are habitual liars, she should be allowed to transfer into any other classification to be an Admin burden there (and cause other people to pick up her share of deployments, etc), and if we want to recruit more people, then we better lower all of our standards.

We don't know, but....
- maybe  she turned out to be an absolute bitch, driving the 'sperm donor' [  : ] away;
- maybe  he said "I'll respect you in the morning," "I've been sterile since birth," and "shucks, I can't even spell STD";
- maybe  some recruiter said "sign here, there's never any training outside of babysitting hours."

I have my doubts, but it's all meaningless.

I guess I'm old school, but I think being responsible for one's own behaviour is an admirable trait .... especially for someone in the military, particularly a potential officer.  How many years more of unemployable but paid service, with her making no progress on her personal circumstances, should taxpayers be on the hook for?

 

[gryphonv]

Yes, and we're now on our fourth page of suppositions where little is known, but it's OK to say that Recruiters are habitual liars, she should be allowed to transfer into any other classification to be an Admin burden there (and cause other people to pick up her share of deployments, etc), and if we want to recruit more people, then we better lower all of our standards.

We don't know, but....
- maybe  she turned out to be an absolute *****, driving the 'sperm donor' [  : ] away;
- maybe  he said "I'll respect you in the morning," "I've been sterile since birth," and "shucks, I can't even spell STD";
- maybe  some recruiter said "sign here, there's never any training outside of babysitting hours."

I have my doubts, but it's all meaningless.

I guess I'm old school, but I think being responsible for one's own behaviour is an admirable trait .... especially for someone in the military, particularly a potential officer.  How many years more of unemployable but paid service, with her making no progress on her personal circumstances, should taxpayers be on the hook for?

I never said once we should lower our standard, and I'm sure the majority of people here feel our standards have already gotten too low.

What I did say on this topic are either things I seen first hand (MARS trade with respect to COT/VOT), and many jaded people who felt they were deceived by recruiting when they originally applied, and seeing more then a few new recruits totally oblivious to the life style they have implanted themselves to. There are failures happening and it is easiest to trace to failures to recruitment/initial training.

This is an unfortunate situation, it should of never got to the point where it was reported with the CBC. She is probably to blame for that as I doubt anyone in the chain tipped them off, that is one thing I cannot defend. Without knowing all the details its hard to really assign blame. One thing though, hard sea trades are arguably the less accommodating when it comes to family issues.

The sad thing is there is a military image that is sold to the public en mass, and then there is a true image that is really only experienced from within. The two rarely mesh well.

 

[Navy_Pete]

This was one of the great things with the old NOAB program (Naval officer assessment boards).  After the recruiting centres did some screening, you would go to one coast or the other and get run through some extra testing and assessment by the navy, but also have the chance to talk to people in the trades you were going into to get the ground truth.

About half the group I went with got either screened out or decided it wasn't for them, so it was probably overall quite an effective program.  It would have been different pots of money though, so it would have shown as a cost (rather than a cost savings by doing some simple math).

Probably wouldn't have made a difference for the naval officer, but talking to a field medic would have saved this lady a lot of grief.

 

[SJBeaton]

I had to let my daughter go because of my job in the Canadian military

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/single-parent-military-1.4169806

Whenever I am asked if I recommend military life to other women, my answer is always categorically: no.

This usually surprises people who know me because I am a vocal feminist, a bit of a tomboy and a six-year veteran of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF). I believe to my core that sex and gender do not, and should not, limit what you can do in life. But women and the armed forces just don't mix.

This saddens me. You are perpetuating the myth that all women are painted with the same brush and you are enabling a stereotype. I am a female in the military, love what I do, have felt supported/encouraged to further my education and career goals, and WOULD highly recommend this career/life-choice to the appropriate female audience (logic prevails in that it won't be a good fit for all, regardless of gender). It would appear that by contributing to articles such as this, you are assisting the media in tainting the public's perception. It's unfortunate that your experience wasn't pleasant for you, but don't ruin it for potential fantastic recruits that are considering the military as an option.