Single Quarters & Rations (R&Q) [MERGED]

[Pea]

I ate at both student messes in Borden during my stay there. However the one I am talking about is the T line mess where the BMQ students & purple trade students eat. (Not the mess CFSATE & PRETC eat at)

 

[geo]

For the most part, I like the kitchens in St Jean, Longue Pointe & Valcatraz...

 

[canadian_moose]

I found all the messes I've been to have had good food and good service including Borden. I still don't understand how they can charge $477 a month for it, the most I spend a month is $250.

 

[PMedMoe]

Well, I have been to bad messes and I do agree that the amount charged for rations is too high, particularly when you are not supposed to take food out of the mess.

Some messes bring this to mind:

 

[aesop081]

I still don't understand how they can charge $477 a month for it, the most I spend a month is $250.

But you are also not paying for someone to cook it for you, someone to do the dishes, wipe the tables, etc, etc,etc...


Well, you could have a wife...guess that would make it more expensive than $477 a month  

 

[Greymatters]

Well, you could have a wife...guess that would make it more expensive than $477 a month   

Really, some of you guys need a calculator, it might help with figuring things out - 3 meals a day for 30 days into $477 makes for an average price of $5.30 per meal.  Considering the mess hall is essentially an 'all you can eat and drink' style dining facility, that's pretty cheap.  Yes, you can do it cheaper at home, but guess what, you're not at home, you live on base during courses for a reason, so make the best of it. 

If you have complaints about the food, you cant just submit a whine, provide concrete examples of poor food.  If foods are too 'greasy', ask for the same meats and veggies without the sauces as an alternative.  If you have specific nutritional requirements for health reasons, justify them and submit them up the chain of command.  If food is always running short, find out if it is due to lack of proper numbers or if too many visitors are coming in unannounced.  If you arent getting your portion of food because your course is always late, talk to your course staff to help meet timings!   

There's always a reason for these things, but poorly worded complaints will not get you action.    If this continues on a regular basis, you can go up your chain and have your supervising NCOs and officers supporting you, but you better have good examples and documented history to back you up!

 

[1feral1]

I found all the messes I've been to have had good food and good service including Borden. I still don't understand how they can charge $477 a month for it, the most I spend a month is $250.

Thats why here there is PAYG Pay As You Go, so one does not get ripped off.

 

[blacktriangle]

I've only eaten at about 5 different messes in the CF and while I don't think it's terrible I find that to stay healthy I often eat the cereals, bagels, juices, sandwiches etc and fruit. All stuff I could make in a small kitchen for under 300 bucks a month. I know it's not a bad deal overall, but I do notice some pers mismanagement in certain places with the civvy staff. Many of them seem to get paid to do little more then push in chairs and wipe tables...

If nothing else it's good motivation to move out of the shacks for people. I bet alot of people that complain would actually fare worse on their own because they are too lazy to eat properly.

 

[Pea]

Really, some of you guys need a calculator, it might help with figuring things out - 3 meals a day for 30 days into $477 makes for an average price of $5.30 per meal.  Considering the mess hall is essentially an 'all you can eat and drink' style dining facility, that's pretty cheap. 

At $5.30 a meal it does sounds pretty cheap when you break it down like that. However when a person goes home on leave each weekend they now have to pay for 8 days of meals a month double. Also, I don't know about you but I cannot do PT on a full stomach, so that means no breakfast before PT. Well by the time PT is over breakfast is closed. So I keep granola bars and such for myself to eat after that. So for me I'm getting 2 meals a day X approx 5 days a week for $477. Not to mention that you are not allowed to take food out of the mess hall, so if I want snacks during the day I have to pay extra out of pocked for that. (Any health educator I've ever known has said I should eat 5 small meals a day to stay healthy & fit) So that means I'm buying a fair amount of food on top of the flat rate I am paying for the mess hall.

I'm not here to whine & complain, I understand that while on course you can't cook your own food so there is a neccesity to eat in the mess and that it does cost money to staff & run it. I just wish there was a better option. (IE: Pay as you go. Pay per meal you swipe your card for)

Although I suppose this isn't a huge concern to me anymore as I am now out of the training system and living in my own home, so the "food bill" is down to more than half of what I was paying. 

 

[Havic]

Thanks for all the great posts and ideas, the mess that I am concerned with is the mess for CFSATE, and the sheer number of people attending the mess is overwhelming, I feel mabye they are short staff during peek times. I will put comments in a speak with the NCM's on duty and my staff to see what can be done. But I am sure I am not the first to complain about this issue. 

 

[Old Sweat]

I am going to jump in here from the perspective of a senior officer (though long retired) reviewing the messing situation. Any assessment would indicate that we were running a very successful program of providing healthy food to the troops. The good stuff was being consumed quickly and the fat pills were being largely discarded. However enough of the latter was being eaten to suggest that there was a market for it. There are no indications that our analysis might be incorrect.

Gang, we senior folks ain't out to poison you or feed you crap. Submit a constructive suggestion or observation and the system will react. It may take time, but you have already realized that the CF takes time to do anything that requires spending public funds.

 

[Greymatters]

At $5.30 a meal it does sounds pretty cheap when you break it down like that. However when a person goes home on leave each weekend they now have to pay for 8 days of meals a month double.

1) This however is a personal choice.  Going home on the weekend is a privelage not an entitlement. 
2) I will admit though that it is a valid point for student convenience, but you must have learned by now that the military as an organization is not designed for personal convenience. 
3) You should also be aware that while it is possible to convert to a 'Pay As You Go system', it actually costs more than you would think to implement, track and monitor a PYAG system, thus increasing the cost per meal you would be paying.  So far there is not enough support, nor cheap enough technology, to justify the extra expense.

Also, I don't know about you but I cannot do PT on a full stomach, so that means no breakfast before PT. Well by the time PT is over breakfast is closed. So I keep granola bars and such for myself to eat after that. So for me I'm getting 2 meals a day X approx 5 days a week for $477.

4) I sympathize with you on this one as I hate doing PT on a full stomach AND I hate eating large meals right after doing a good PT workout.  Instead I would eithr eat first thing and did PT late at night, or did PT first thing and ate as late as I could before mess hours closed.  Unfortunately, this again is a personal preference and really cant be used as a basis for change as there are just as many people who arent bothered by these issues.
5) Sometimes we are lucky and work at places with mess halls where there are no set meal hours, and these issues tend to go away.  Otherwise, yes, keep stocking up on granola bars.

Not to mention that you are not allowed to take food out of the mess hall, so if I want snacks during the day I have to pay extra out of pocked for that. 

6) Hmmm, not intended to rouse a future career of insurrection and rebellion, but you will find that this rule is not enforced around the world as strictly as it is at training bases. 
7) To be more practical - there should be no problem with putting an apple or orange in your pocket for later consumption.  However, if you are on a basic entry course, then I would suggest you not do this. 
8) For the future, be aware that not all mess hall staff are so anal retentive on this rule.  Most mess halls are more relaxed about this and recognize that growing boys and girls need a little extra bite after they've been working hard all day.  So that means you might not get your money's worth during basic, but it will work out in the future.
9) However, to cover your butt, it should not be a problem to talk to a mess hall NCO and ask their permission so you can wrap up a sandwich for eating after you physical training later that day.  Ive done it myself in the past, although i will admit it wasnt always successful. 

Any health educator I've ever known has said I should eat 5 small meals a day to stay healthy & fit) So that means I'm buying a fair amount of food on top of the flat rate I am paying for the mess hall. 

10) Hmmm, again I have to say this is a personal choice.  After decades of experience, the CF has dictated that you only need three meals to sustain a healthy body, regardless of what health educators say.  My god, are deliberately flouting the wisdom and expertise of this country's military leaders !!!??? 
11) More seriously, the military is training you and expecting you to adapt to the military lifestyle.  If you choose to eat smaller meals more often as part of personal fitness concerns, it will only cause you difficulties for the rest of your career, regardless of cost.  i.e. you may later get your money that will allow you to afford five meals per day on your own budget, but you're not going to be given time to eat five times a day!  You'll get three eating breaks just like the rest of us neanderthals... (I can easily imagine some RSM on an overseas deployment foaming at the mouth while you explain the need for inserting two extra meal timings into the work schedule, hahaha)

 

[geo]

Thought it was available across the country but, within the Montreal, St Jean and Valcatraz region, we do have a pay as you go ration card system.... electric scale. cash register, swipe cards ....

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Every time I hear a complaint about CF messhalls, I quickly point out that before anyone bashes our messes, wait until you have tried other nations messing.

And I say this as a former British soldier, we are not called 'poopeaters' for nothing.

For those who wish for a PAYG system, be VERY careful what you wish for. The idea was always talked about in the British Army, and last year they implemented it. Read here to find out how people like it:

Pay As You Dine

RAF Views on PAYD


In my experience, Canadian messhalls have always had a tremendous range of healthy options, great salad bars, wide variety of fresh fruit/juices, and food cooked to an excellent standard by military chefs.

 

[kratz]

In other messes like Atlantic Galley in Halifax and the JR Mess in Shearwater they have a PAYG system.

In the mid-90s, the messes in Borden had a pay for each item consumed. Students were issued a card with a dollar value attached to each meal and the total value was for the day. This amount had no cash value, and members soon noticed it was a use it or lose it concept. Under this system students were able to take food out of the mess for later consumption. Even under this system there were problems with meal quality and the availability of certain foods. One complaint was the daily dollar amount was insufficient to properly feed some members.

So over time, there have been similar problems and they have attempted other solutions. As others have mentioned, when feeding large groups of people quality tends to suffer for quantity. The suggested actions are the best means of keeping those correctable areas in the forfront and are the best way to see steady food service.

 

[aussiechangover]

i have been lucky enough to experience a few countries messing arrangments such as the U.S, Australia, Indonesia and here in Canada. Believe me although sometimes the meals aren't of a outstanding quality and you may spend some time in a line to eat it could be worse. i've had to drink milk out of a bag full of ice with a straw in Indonesia (then shortly after puke it up as the milk was off). eat off prison trays in a U.S mess hall well they looked like that anyway and pay over $10 for the privilage and the portions were tiny. but to top it all off eat what was so called chicken nuggets for breakfast only to discover that the cooks had breadcrumbed brains in an Aussie navy mess and while at sea eat a meat pie that was burnt on the outside and still frozen on the inside.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

eat a meat pie that was burnt on the outside and still frozen on the inside.

Wow, you just brought back memories of British lunch bags, AKA Horrorbags, and the obligatory cornish pasty/sausage roll. First bite 9 times out of 10 would guarantee you a mouthful of frozen pasty filling/sausage meat. What I never understood was where they got the contents of the bag (crisps, pop). Apart from Twix/Snickers bars, I never, EVER saw any brands in horror bags that were readily available on civvy street. They were either filling them with surplus war stock crisps from a long-gone-under company, or this company making said low value crisps was surviving only on a contract to provide lunch bag fillings for british soldiers.

Great diet program mind you.

 

[Pea]

Thanks Greymatters for the very constructive & healthy discussion. 

I can assure you that after just shy of 2 years in the training system I have very much adapted to the "military way of life", and you'd never see me asking for extra meal time on a tasking or deployment. Obviously a person makes due when they are on exercise or course, but when I'm on my own I stick to my personal health/fitness plans that help keep me as an individual from being overweight and useless to the CF. I signed up knowing that the CF's needs will always come first, and I fully accept that and work within its limits. (I just shove apples and granola in my backback for quick consumption on whatever little breaks I get throughout the day. Smokers don't go without all day, so neither do I. haha) However, I will always recommend change that myself or other comrades think could improve the whole experience for all.

Thanks for the thoughts on the pay as you go system for those of you that have experience with it. I haven't seen it used anywhere so I had no info on it. Thankfully I should be done with mess halls for at least a few months. (until they decide to send me away again..  )

 

[geo]

TTG... the Crisp Mfg is probably still around and doing very well for itself... they just don't want to have their name associated with things that were probably "culled" as rejects from their production line.

English mess tents ?  Yeah - remember those & not too fondly - deep fried everything
Was attached to a Para Engineer sqn many years ago - while they were training in Valcartier.
I knew there was a problem with "their" mess tent when people were falling over themselves - trying to find excuses to dine in the Base kitchen VS dealing with their own cooks.

 

[TCBF]

- Amazing how many NATO countries somehow ended up rolling into a Canadian camp in the Balkans just before mealtime.  Co-incidence, you ask?

- In 4CMBG, some of our guys found rations at a PzAufKlBn Kaserne to be a bit sparse and spent a lot of money on schnitzel or wurst at the Mannshaftsheim.