Snowbird Future

[YZT580]

I thought they died along time ago with the Buffalo?

Ah yes, death by U.S. air force policy. No the Otter is still alive and DE Havilland is still taking orders for new ones. It is still one of the very few STOL a/c available for those countries that don't have 10,000 ft. runways

 

[foresterab]

those are comparable a/c for a controller and a circuit operation. Take those same a/c and throw in two C150s on solo circuits including one on first solo and it gets complicated real quick. I had the joy of telling Transport 101 with Pierre on board to execute a missed approach because the L329 was getting too close to a student on his very first trip around the circuit. Imagine the same scenario with students in both the jets and the props. Safety first.

Hence why they bird dog controls air space on fires while tankers are in the air. Altitude stack, target assignment, zone entry in addition to fire mapping and situational updates. Also includes helicopter entry....so you might be sent high altitude while they operate low or grounded if in conflict. In a military context this is much more aligned with what I think of the old artillery FO's or Vietnam era bird dogs (L-19 Bird Dog, OV-10a Bronco, O-2 Skymaster) coordinating air strikes.

My apologies for not being up on what was used in recent theaters like Afghanistan. But there is a reason why in the US former A-10 Warthog pilots are a key profession targeted for water bomber pilots.

But in a training world, which is why I mentioned the Dash-8's in the first place, it's amazing to me how much remote, simulator based training is going on for this type of work. When I can go see a Air Attack Officer (Bird Dog) in Alberta coordinating pilots in simulators in BC and Washington State practicing formation work I do wonder if there are more options to expand beyond just using RCAF resources. If it's simulators throw a provincial or civilian resource into the scenario

 

[YZT580]

But in a training world, which is why I mentioned the Dash-8's in the first place, it's amazing to me how much remote, simulator based training is going on for this type of work. When I can go see a Air Attack Officer (Bird Dog) in Alberta coordinating pilots in simulators in BC and Washington State practicing formation work I do wonder if there are more options to expand beyond just using RCAF resources. If it's simulators throw a provincial or civilian resource into the scenario

Would be a great area in which to combine resources with our allies. Eurocontrol was set up to link their simulators in a number of countries to create a mosaiced picture; including linking for instance an Air France airbus sim. into the ATC simulation. Would certainly reduce hardware costs per country and would add a unexpected complication to the exercise.

 

[McG]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2055398848936239411

 

[The Bread Guy]

Usual caveats about initial reports - this from CTV:

Snowbirds’ iconic jets prepare for ‘farewell season’, aerobatic team grounded until early 2030s

The Snowbirds are entering a final chapter. After more than five decades in the skies, the federal government has confirmed to CTV News that the Canadian Forces’ iconic aerobatic team will fly its last season with the aircraft that made it famous.

www.ctvnews.ca

The Snowbirds are entering a final chapter.

After more than five decades in the skies, the federal government has confirmed to CTV News that the Canadian Forces’ iconic aerobatic team will fly its last season with the aircraft that made it famous.

Defence Minister David McGuinty will announce Tuesday at Canadian Forces Base Moose Jaw that Canada will retire and replace the Snowbirds’ long-serving CT-114 Tutor jets, marking a turning point for one of the country’s most recognizable symbols.

In a statement shared with CTV News, the Department of National Defence (DND) says it plans to replace the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) fleet with a new aircraft, the CT-157 Siskin II, under a modernization effort not expected to be complete until the early 2030s.

“This will ensure that Canada continues its strong tradition of air demonstration capability with a modern fleet that will ultimately rebuild to the team’s distinctive nine-plane formation,” the statement reads ...

ICYMI, here's the RCAF info-machine's FB info-graphic on the plane:

 

[MilEME09]

The CT-157 is as interesting choice as a prop plane. However I think this was done so that they could still do the smaller air shows.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Meanwhile, more from CBC & CP

https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/9.7204210

Snowbirds’ iconic jets prepare for ‘farewell season’, aerobatic team grounded until early 2030s

The Snowbirds are entering a final chapter. After more than five decades in the skies, the federal government has confirmed to CTV News that the Canadian Forces’ iconic aerobatic team will fly its last season with the aircraft that made it famous.

www.cp24.com

 

[daftandbarmy]

Meanwhile, more from CBC & CP

https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/9.7204210

Snowbirds’ iconic jets prepare for ‘farewell season’, aerobatic team grounded until early 2030s

The Snowbirds are entering a final chapter. After more than five decades in the skies, the federal government has confirmed to CTV News that the Canadian Forces’ iconic aerobatic team will fly its last season with the aircraft that made it famous.

www.cp24.com

Hear me out... an eco-friendly, ParticipAction box checking, ground based version!

 

[FJAG]

So let me, a ground pounder, ask the obvious questions.

If the CT-157 is to be used as the aircraft for both the Advanced Flying Training Fixed-wing Program and the Advanced Flying Training Jet Program then:

a) what is the fundamental difference anymore between these programs; and

b) what is the first jet engine equipped aircraft that pilots will graduate to after completing AFTJP on the CT-157? Will it be the F-35?

 

[KevinB]

The CT-157 is as interesting choice as a prop plane. However I think this was done so that they could still do the smaller air shows.

Clearly the key focus as opposed to something like Advanced Flying Training Jet ? They seem to have missed the key word JET?

Am I the only thinking this makes the RCAF a laughing stock?

 

[dapaterson]

Clearly the key focus as opposed to something like Advanced Flying Training Jet ? They seem to have missed the key word JET?

Am I the only thinking this makes the RCAF a laughing stock?

Aussies fly the PC-21 for their air demo team. So the same.

 

[Ping Monkey]

Hear me out... an eco-friendly, ParticipAction box checking, ground based version!

I like this option. Japan also does something similar:

 

[MilEME09]

Am I the only thinking this makes the RCAF a laughing stock?

Its the same plane the Australian acrobatic team uses, and they love it. Plus being a prop plane, and an early trainer. They have a larger talent pool they can draw from both jet and fixed wing.

 

[KevinB]

Aussies fly the PC-21 for their air demo team. So the same.

Do they also use it as their Jet Fighter Trainer?

No they use the Hawk, an actual jet...

 

[KevinB]

Its the same plane the Australian acrobatic team uses, and they love it. Plus being a prop plane, and an early trainer. They have a larger talent pool they can draw from both jet and fixed wing.

Missing my point -- as I pointed out above the Aussies may use it for the demo team, but they have the Hawk 127's for jet training.

 

[MilEME09]

Missing my point -- as I pointed out above the Aussies may use it for the demo team, but they have the Hawk 127's for jet training.

the siskin II is not a jet lead in trainer though, that aircraft has not been selected yet.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

So let me, a ground pounder, ask the obvious questions.

If the CT-157 is to be used as the aircraft for both the Advanced Flying Training Fixed-wing Program and the Advanced Flying Training Jet Program then:

a) what is the fundamental difference anymore between these programs; and

b) what is the first jet engine equipped aircraft that pilots will graduate to after completing AFTJP on the CT-157? Will it be the F-35?

Don't forget the Future Fighter Lead-In Trainer program whose two favourites (according to the rumour mill) are the TF-50 and M-346. So I imagine that would be the next stop before F-35/Gripen

 

[KevinB]

the siskin II is not a jet lead in trainer though, that aircraft has not been selected yet.

The RCAF mentions Advanced Flying Training Jet for the Siskin II, which made no sense to me.

Don't forget the Future Fighter Lead-In Trainer program whose two favourites (according to the rumour mill) are the TF-50 and M-346. So I imagine that would be the next stop before F-35.

1) FIFY
2) Okay that makes more sense -- but then as @FJAG points out - it really isn't then two streams at that point, it is simply Advanced Fixed Wing - then the stream splits to Fighter or Multi-Engine (ignoring that the CF-18 has 2 engines), and Ret AF Guy corrected me on the F-35 being a single engine like the F-16.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

The RCAF mentions Advanced Flying Training Jet for the Siskin II, which made no sense to me.

1) FIFY
2) Okay that makes more sense -- but then as @FJAG points out - it really isn't then two streams at that point, it is simply Advanced Fixed Wing - then the stream splits to Fighter or Multi-Engine (ignoring that the CF-18 and F-35 have 2 engines).

F-35 is single engine. Thinking of the F-22.

 

[KevinB]

F-35 is single engine. Thinking of the F-22.

Or POTUS's Super F-35 that will have two engines