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someone 's infatuation with becoming a spy

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sean m

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Hello,

I know this topic is three years old but I just found out about it recently and have some questions if they do not threaten operations security. There had been articles three years ago regarding the formation of a new HUMINT company, I am interested in becoming and intel operator and specializing in HUMINT. I was wondering about this new unit to analyze how hard it would be to get into. I also am wondering if it would be equivalent to the American's "Intelligence Support Activity" and if this new unit is a special forces unit. I am bringing this up because I believe it is okay since the ISA is a known unit.

Thank you
 
Might want to choose a new avatar.


As far as info on HUMINT, etc once you are in the Military and have DWAN access you can look at the CANFORGENs regarding recruitment, and try out for it.  Also, any trade can go HUMINT except Padre and I think one or two others.

As for a HUMINT company, well if the unit has been formed and active for the last couple years and theres no public source info on it there may be a reason for that...
 
-Skeletor- said:
Also, any trade can go HUMINT except Padre and I think one or two others.

None of the Medical trades can, either.
 
If you're in the military, ask your chain of command about opportunities in HUMINT.  If you are not in the military, ask your recruiter for directions to get to St Jean.
 
But I am really interested in going into HUMINT and was wondering if this new special HUMINT was equivalent to the american Intelligence Support Activity, and if someone who actualy has an idea could say so. I just want to know this to get an image of how hard it would be to get in. I am sry everyone and the MODS if this is a serious breach of OPSEC.
 
Locked. Before the dogpile begins.

sean m,

If you wish your stay at Army.ca to be a fruitful and informative one then I suggest you learn the following:
1) how to ask a question AND THEN allow people to answer, or not, as they wish
2) do not post questions repeatedly
3) spelling, grammar, punctuation, not using MSN speak, etc. etc. etc.

Scott
Army.ca Staff
 
Hey everyone,

I was wondering what you thought about Canda creating a foreign intelligence service, similar to that as C.I.A and M.i.6. I think it would be could since it would be able to expand our influence in the world, protect and increase or enhance our assests overseas, gather intelligence on risks to our nation. There is of course CSIS, but they are solely involved in Canada, maybe the government should create a foreign division of CSIS. It would also expand the image of Canada around the world hopefully in a positive way. The goal would not be as forceful and macho as the C.I.A, just to help when needed and protect when there is a risk. Even create a special activities division like the C.I.A so as to provide quick and adept intervention force when necessaru. What do you think, is it too much capital for the government?
 
Well, at least he used the search function?  :P  Three year necropost though.  I wonder if that approaches a site record?

Sean you can rest assured that CSIS is rather good at what it does and isn't just navel gazing within the borders of Canada. 

(and whatever did happen to Yard Ape?)
 
From the CSIS website, "Frequently Asked Questions":
http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/bts/fq-eng.asp#bm16

...
Does CSIS operate overseas?

There is no restriction in the CSIS Act on where CSIS may collect information on threats to the security of Canada. We may collect information on security threats from anywhere in Canada or abroad...

From an Oct. 2009 speech by CSIS Director Dick Fadden:
http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/nwsrm/spchs/spch29102009-eng.asp

...
In this state of constant flux, it is important that we be able to focus on our core mandate to the highest possible degree. It is clear that operating more outside of Canada is a crucial element in tracking and understanding the threats to Canada.

Terrorists, whatever else they may be, are not couch potatoes. They are part of this great global flux we all live in. Ideas, money, products and people – they all move. CSIS therefore has to be more mobile to defend Canada against threats. That is the simple global reality we face...

From the CBC's Brian Stewart, April 2009:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/04/16/f-vp-stewart.html

...CSIS is increasingly operating abroad.

Its agents have been sent out to track foreign terror cells, search for nuclear and chemical weapons proliferation and follow up on commercial espionage or sabotage threats affecting Canadian interests.

It can also spy for any one of its federal allies when asked to and it will help abroad any of the Five Eyes, just so long as it does not target a specific government. Slippery? Yes.
A confusing distinction

"It is a bit of a confusing distinction," [previous director Jim] Judd acknowledged last year to a Senate committee on security. "We certainly do conduct intelligence operations outside Canada (but) it is now done only when clearly linked to our national security mandate relating to the protection of Canada or Canadians.

"So we are not so much collecting foreign intelligence as collecting national security intelligence outside Canada."..

Mark
Ottawa
 
Do you think that JTf2 is in Yemen with the Americans. The British and the Saudis seem to be

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/6924502/Detroit-terror-attack-Britain-sends-counter-terrorist-forces-to-Yemen.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/18/german-hentschel-hostages-yemen
 
I'm guessing anybody that has the slightest clue about it is not allowed to share it with anybody, not even on army.ca

 
Sean M,

What your discussing breaches something called OPSEC, Operational Security.  We don't discuss details of deployments.  With certain units, details means anything.

Thus, this topic is locked.
 
I am posting through the lock to point out one additional thing and make a request: You have not yet earned the right to wear the Intelligence Branch cap badge. Please do not use it as an avatar.
 
More on the immediate post-war years (pp. 14-16), by Barry Cooper, published by the Canadian Defence & Foreign Affairs Institute (usual copyright disclaimer) :

CFIS:
A Foreign Intelligence Service for Canada

http://www.cdfai.org/PDF/CFIS.pdf

...
Foulkes’ proposal, in short, was for a balanced but effective agency both to collect foreign
intelligence and to protect domestic secrets. There was no thought of simply turning into an
intelligence consumer or a free-rider. This was not simply a matter of self-respect; it reflected a
shrewd understanding, based on wartime experience as a significant member of a successful
military coalition, of how alliances, including intelligence alliances, worked. In 1945, Canadians,
at least in the military, had no desire to become dependent on anyone, even their closest friends.

In the event, Canada did not follow its allies in establishing a foreign intelligence service. Alistair
Hensler, a former director general of operations at CSIS, suggested that two key personalities
shaped the decision not to follow the American and British examples: Robertson and Glazebrook
(Hensler 1995, 17–18). During the war, Robertson assumed personal responsibility for foreign
intelligence, but with nothing written down, as Glazebrook said, there was no institutional
memory external to Robertson’s memory and no formal structures to manage intelligence flow.
On some issues, he maintained an arm’s length relationship from foreign intelligence because he
knew Mackenzie King’s ignorance of, and limited tolerance for, the subject. Instead, a Toronto
businessman, Thomas Drew-Brook of British Security Coordination, became the principal British
intelligence contact in Canada, even though the latter was based in New York. Drew-Brook
informed Robertson regularly about his activities, but as time passed, the regularity of this contact
waned. It is unclear what foreign intelligence matters Robertson dealt with personally, although
Drew-Brook, who operated outside the government and who had no decision-making authority
within it, coordinated much of the operational support for British foreign intelligence in Canada.
(Incidentally, Jack Granatstein, Robertson’s biographer, was given access to all files, “except
those relating to security and intelligence questions,” so that the open documentary record is thin
[Granatstein 1981, xiv, 168]). As a result, no one in the post-war government outside the
mandarins in External Affairs knew or understood the full extent of Canadian support of foreign
intelligence operations or developed an appreciation of its potential benefits (Hensler 1995, 19).
Not until many years later was the espionage training at Camp X even acknowledged.
In contrast to Robertson, George Glazebrook confined his experience and knowledge of
intelligence to communications intercepts and had little involvement with foreign human
intelligence. Even that more sanitized experience evidently caused Glazebrook to develop a
singular distaste for spying in general. While he was quick to support a continuation of Canada’s
communications intercept activities, he regarded other aspects of foreign intelligence as purely
wartime expedients and was adamant that Canada could not afford the necessary commitment of
resources to contribute anything to the work done by British Secret Intelligence Service or by
CIA. According to Starnes, Glazebrook approached security and intelligence matters as “an
irresistible intellectual challenge,” as is, perhaps, inevitable for an academic in the spy business.
Partly as a result of his approach, he was not universally admired by the military, and he
reciprocated by thinking they were not very bright, “which made for uneasy relations between
External Affairs and National Defence” (Starnes 1998, 84).
When External Affairs and National Defence did get together at meetings of the Joint Intelligence
Committee, the chairmanship was in the hands of the military. Glazebrook represented External.
In 1946, the chairmanship passed permanently to External. There is “no written record” of why
this happened, though Starnes is of the opinion that it happened simply because Robertson
insisted (Starnes 1998, 95). According to Granatstein, Robertson wanted post-war Canada to
support only a security intelligence capability, and he preferred that it be internal to the civilian
ministries, with the Privy Council Office acting as a coordinating committee along British lines
(absent, of course, any Canadian equivalent of MI6). “The intent,” said Granatstein, “was clearly
to keep security questions close by the Department of External Affairs and as far away from
National Defence as possible. The suggestion of Privy Council Office control did that”
(Granatstein 1981, 181).
There was a division, therefore, between the clear-eyed military who saw the benefit of a
dedicated foreign intelligence service, and the distinguished “Ottawa men” who did not
(Granatstein 1998). Even Sir William Stephenson, who served the Allied intelligence effort
during World War II, was unable to persuade Canadian officials to establish a foreign intelligence
collection agency. He visited Ottawa and met with Lester Pearson, then undersecretary for
external affairs (Robertson by then was high commissioner in London), who was unmoved by
Stephenson’s argument. Alistair Hensler summarized the result: “Canada therefore entered the
post-war period unconvinced of the need for a foreign intelligence service … Unlike their
American and British counterparts, Canadian policy makers were unable or unwilling to
conceptualize the role of a foreign intelligence service in a period of relative peace” (Hensler
1995, 20). The reason seems to be that Robertson and Glazebrook, two men whose personal
distaste for spying and idiosyncratic opinions about the importance of foreign intelligence, were
tasked with planning and developing the post-war Canadian intelligence community. As to why
they held those views, the biographic record is regrettably silent. The consequence, however, is
clear: No spies for Canada.
As a postscript to this fateful post-war decision, Starnes reported an encounter in the mid-1950s
with Robertson. Starnes was, at the time, the liaison officer in External tasked with coordinating
business with the military. Ralph Harry, the head of the newly established Australian Secret
Intelligence Service, raised the issue of the desirability, from an Australian perspective, of a
Canadian foreign or secret intelligence service. Starnes took the message to Robertson
“reluctantly.” When Starnes spoke to Robertson, “he gave one of his huge sighs and looked at me
rather reproachfully, but said nothing. He had decided to refuse the proposal, but so far as I know,
it never was recorded – not by him and certainly not by me” (Starnes 1998, xi).
Finally in 1958, Robertson wrote about the need to review Canadian intelligence services. He
wanted to create a “National Intelligence Body” to coordinate intelligence across all government
departments. He did not, however, propose an offensive, foreign intelligence body such as CIA
because “the coordination of intelligence through the creation of a new agency here [in
Washington, where Robertson was serving as Canadian ambassador] has caused as many
difficulties as it has solved.” Moreover, it has taken a decade for CIA to get to the point where it
“has approached the performance of its statutory role” (Granatstein 1981, 331). Besides, he
continued, a central agency works better under the American system of government, and it was
difficult for him to see how such an agency could operate outside a particular government
department. Again he advocated the creation of an interdepartmental committee chaired by the
Department of External Affairs. At the height of the Cold War, Robertson exemplified the
questionable virtue of consistency along with unquestionable loyalty to “his” department,
External Affairs...

As my posts at Daimnation! noted above show
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/2334/post-567372.html#msg567372
I am not in favour of a distinct  foreign intelligence  (HUMINT) agency; rather I think the current situation with CSIS operating abroad as necessary to collect security intelligence (which can take on a quite broad definition indeed)  is the right route for Canada to follow (I had a fair bit of experience with intelligence analysis in the government).

And the CF also seem now to be fair dabs at HUMINT, see this thread,
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/21520/post-110961.html#msg110961

and several others show up if you search for "humint canforgen".

Mark
Ottawa
 
Do you know anything about this unit, such as is it difficult to get into?




MarkOttawa said:
More on the immediate post-war years (pp. 14-16), by Barry Cooper, published by the Canadian Defence & Foreign Affairs Institute (usual copyright disclaimer) :

CFIS:
A Foreign Intelligence Service for Canada

http://www.cdfai.org/PDF/CFIS.pdf

As my posts at Daimnation! noted above show
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/2334/post-567372.html#msg567372
I am not in favour of a distinct  foreign intelligence  (HUMINT) agency; rather I think the current situation with CSIS operating abroad as necessary to collect security intelligence (which can take on a quite broad definition indeed)  is the right route for Canada to follow (I had a fair bit of experience with intelligence analysis in the government).

And the CF also seem now to be fair dabs at HUMINT, see this thread,
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/21520/post-110961.html#msg110961

and several others show up if you search for "humint canforgen".

Mark
Ottawa
 
Does anyone think that volunteering abroad besides aiding those who are in need, is a good way to increase or a starting point at the Human intelligence trade. Activities such as; interacting with people, organizations involved in things such as human rights, getting to know countries, cultures and customs, developing contacts who know the country and can be helpful assets later on?
 
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