Sr NCO / Officer relationship

[army]

Posted by "John Gow" <jgow@home.com> on Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:18:29 -0500
Thanks Bruce...and Don, too...
Nobody ever said you guys were in any way dumb...and we NCM‘s knew that you
were of the number that appreciated both the men, and us. Which is sort of
the dividing line....
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Williams"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donald Schepens"
>
> > You just can‘t have one without the other. For the most part, I agree
> very
> > strongly with John‘s comments. NCOs will almost always have more
> experience
> > than the officers they are teemed with. Officer training tends to be
> mostly
> > decision making and planning. NCOs make the decisions and plans happen.
> >
> > Now some of you out there, who have worked in staffs and I have as
well
> > will take offence. However, it is how I see it.
> >
>
> I heartily agree with the comments from Don and John on this topic.
>
> As regards staffs and especially staff officers and I too spent time as
> one. There are two distinct groupings. First are the officers who are
there
> to do a good job until they can get back to the Bn/Regt and hopefully to a
> command slot. The second group are those who are quite happy to be in a
> staff job where leadership and command responsibility are not required.
Too
> often it seems the second group have gained control within the CF and
since
> they distrust what they don‘t understand they concentrate on trying to
> ensure the first group are kept busy with paperwork even when they are not
> on staff.
>
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[army]

Posted by CoastDanny@aol.com on Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:32:19 EST
I‘d only go dry if YOU were buying, remember I will have US dollars LOL.
We are planning on being home for 9June but $$ rules right now.
What have you got on Anne too? LOL
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[army]

Posted by "John Gow" <jgow@home.com> on Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:35:49 -0500
What have I on Anne?
Yessss...smiling smugly...why don‘t you ask her?
Dubonnet, Orange Blossoms, Don‘s various antics...a lifetime of memory, not
wipe clean magnetic diskettes...just a twisted perverted hard drive...that
she may fear...
John
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
> I‘d only go dry if YOU were buying, remember I will have US dollars LOL.
> We are planning on being home for 9June but $$ rules right now.
> What have you got on Anne too? LOL
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[army]

Posted by "John Gow" <jgow@home.com> on Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:47:47 -0500
Could you introduce yourself, Martin?
Witness the "Welcome to Salem" remark a week or so ago...
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Woods"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 11:35 PM
Subject: RE: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
> Fellow list members. So far excellent and entertaining responses. But I
> think that you miss the essence of what I am seeking.
>
> I am looking for the almost impossible A Written Reference.
>
> I have spoken to many who have referred to seeing such a reference, yet no
> one seems to be able to say where.
> I‘m afraid it is like the Easter Bunny. All believe, but no one can say
> why.
>
> MGW
>
>
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[army]

Posted by "Martin Woods" <woodsm@home.com> on Tue, 13 Mar 2001 07:25:36 -0700
Well, I‘ve been following this list since Nov 98. I‘m a Sgt with the
Calgary Highlanders.
I posted the question re Officer/NCO relationships because there are so few
references that anyone can point to.
Could you introduce yourself, Martin?
Witness the "Welcome to Salem" remark a week or so ago...
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Woods"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 11:35 PM
Subject: RE: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
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[army]

Posted by "dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com> on Tue, 13 Mar 2001 07:34:41 -0800
Another lurker comes out of the shadows...Welcome
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Woods"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 6:25 AM
Subject: RE: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
> Well, I‘ve been following this list since Nov 98. I‘m a Sgt with the
> Calgary Highlanders.
>
> I posted the question re Officer/NCO relationships because there are so
few
> references that anyone can point to.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Could you introduce yourself, Martin?
>
> Witness the "Welcome to Salem" remark a week or so ago...
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martin Woods"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 11:35 PM
> Subject: RE: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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[army]

Posted by CoastDanny@aol.com on Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:29:15 EST
Welcome Martin, at least you didnt say 1st Lt with the Cal Highs. :
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[army]

Posted by "Ian Kate" <imcgrego@hotmail.com> on Tue, 13 Mar 2001 14:32:28 -0500
I saw such a reference once. It was put out by Mobile Command and while a
few years old is still accurate. I believe it was a general message to all
Sr NCOs and officers at the time it was created. I may have a copy hiding
around the house somewhere. It was mostly useless to me when I first read
it as an army cadet it seems that or instructor forgot that in the cadets
the officer typically has more experience and the cadet NCO is the
understudy, but I have since found its advice useful. I will see what I
can do for you.
Ian McGregor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Woods"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 11:35 PM
Subject: RE: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
> Fellow list members. So far excellent and entertaining responses. But I
> think that you miss the essence of what I am seeking.
>
> I am looking for the almost impossible A Written Reference.
>
> I have spoken to many who have referred to seeing such a reference, yet no
> one seems to be able to say where.
> I‘m afraid it is like the Easter Bunny. All believe, but no one can say
> why.
>
> MGW
>
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[army]

Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org> on Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:29:55 -0700
A long time ago, I had given to me, from one of my American friends, a Snr
NCOs Creed, which spoke of all that. I have also had a piece of paper that
compared Oficers‘ tasks, to Snr NCOs. Alas, I fear I am also one of those,
who had, but cannot produce...
Ubique
Mac
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Woods"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 9:35 PM
Subject: RE: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
> Fellow list members. So far excellent and entertaining responses. But I
> think that you miss the essence of what I am seeking.
>
> I am looking for the almost impossible A Written Reference.
>
> I have spoken to many who have referred to seeing such a reference, yet no
> one seems to be able to say where.
> I‘m afraid it is like the Easter Bunny. All believe, but no one can say
> why.
>
> MGW
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
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[army]

Posted by "Martin Woods" <woodsm@home.com> on Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:22:21 -0700
Gents, if you find the references you have referred to, I would be grateful.
cheers
MGW
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[army]

Posted by m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca on Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:19:25 -0800
Martin, As John says, I might have something for you back in
Halifax. I‘m in Kingston on course and will be home by the first
of April. You can get me directly at m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca.
I might be able to find \it here, but we‘re in the middle of
the final exercise so my time is limited. I suppose the worst
case is that I could try to write something.
Mike
PS for all: My article on the Regimental System will be in the
soon to be released Army Bulletin.
http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com
--- Original Message ---
"Martin Woods" Wrote on
Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:35:17 -0700
------------------
Fellow list members. So far excellent and entertaining responses.
But I
think that you miss the essence of what I am seeking.
I am looking for the almost impossible A Written Reference.
I have spoken to many who have referred to seeing such a reference,
yet no
one seems to be able to say where.
I‘m afraid it is like the Easter Bunny. All believe, but no
one can say
why.
MGW
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[army]

Posted by "Martin Woods" <woodsm@home.com> on Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:20:01 -0700
Mike
Take care of the crse. I can wait.
thanks
MGW
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[army]

Posted by "Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com> on Wed, 14 Mar 2001 05:40:37 -0000
You‘re a gentleman to your core, as I‘m sure Don is, too - in spite of your
efforts to besmirch his spotless name...
----Original Message Follows----
From: "John Gow"
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To:
Subject: Re: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:40:47 -0500
We, too, were young and dumb and full of come in our day...
And we had a fair number of days...
More, unfortunately, than the average recruit of 2001.
So if all could forgive me for twitting my very long time friend and
mentor...that thread is not going further, unless you find another source...
and in a truly Gaelic phrase of that Bn of that day, broken for
clarity..."‘an they‘re all dead!"
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Schepens"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
> Ask John or Dan, they‘ll tell you that I‘m not scared of much of
anything.
> I just don‘t think that this sort of story about myself or anyone else
> really belongs on this site. Having said that, if John wants to share,
he
> certainly may.
>
> Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joan O. Arc
> To:
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 9:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
>
>
> > If Don is worried about "mixed company" instead of just about saving
> > face!, he needn‘t be. Spill, John, spill... So to speak!
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: CoastDanny@aol.com
> > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
> > Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:36:24 EST
> >
> >
> > Don puked on his RSM???? John, buddy, pal, do tell! Hehehehehe
> > --------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
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[army]

Posted by Greg Hawes <hawes@SEDSystems.ca> on Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:53:19 -0600 (CST)
Martin,
The written word on this subject is indeed hard to find.
In a phrase, watch and learn, but almost as important,
learn who to watch.
I found a couple of refs which ‘touch‘ on the issue:
http://www.dnd.ca/commelec/nwslettr/vol36/rsm.htm
The following article doesn‘t really deal fully with the
relationship issue, but it is interesting reading. It is
entitled "Leadership: the ability to tell someone to go to
**** , and have them look forward to the trip" .
http://www.vcds.dnd.ca/dgsp/dsc/D2000nws/1997/dec97/leader_e.asp
In addition, there was a series of articles co-published a
few years back by the Wing Comd Wing CWO of 14 Wing that
dealt with the issue. Unfortunately, I can‘t find them on
the net - perhaps someone else was fortunate enough to save
them.
Finally, you should check out this US Army
leadership site - it has a wealth of info on leadership
issues.
http://www.leadership.army.mil/
greg
On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:22:21 -0700 Martin Woods
wrote:
> Gents, if you find the references you have referred to, I
> would be grateful.
>
> cheers
> MGW
>
>
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[army]

Posted by "Donald Schepens" <a.schepens@home.com> on Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:20:43 -0700
I‘ve read the article. It is extremely interesting.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 8:19 PM
Subject: RE: RE: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
>
>
> Martin, As John says, I might have something for you back in
> Halifax. I‘m in Kingston on course and will be home by the first
> of April. You can get me directly at m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca.
> I might be able to find \it here, but we‘re in the middle of
> the final exercise so my time is limited. I suppose the worst
> case is that I could try to write something.
>
> Mike
>
> PS for all: My article on the Regimental System will be in the
> soon to be released Army Bulletin.
>
> http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com
>
>
> --- Original Message ---
> "Martin Woods" Wrote on
> Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:35:17 -0700
> ------------------
> Fellow list members. So far excellent and entertaining responses.
> But I
> think that you miss the essence of what I am seeking.
>
> I am looking for the almost impossible A Written Reference.
>
> I have spoken to many who have referred to seeing such a reference,
> yet no
> one seems to be able to say where.
> I‘m afraid it is like the Easter Bunny. All believe, but no
> one can say
> why.
>
> MGW
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
>
> -----
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