Stress disorder likely to trouble some soldiers - CP article

[Big Red]

"He is scheduled to return home this month, and said his biggest fear is that he feels nothing about those he has killed.

'DOESN'T BOTHER YOU'

"You wonder why it doesn't bother you to see bodies explode or chopped to little pieces by a machine-gun and know that you did it."

That feeling of numbness, along with anger and an inability to cope, is a common symptom of post-traumatic stress disorder."

I'm going to totally disagree with this statement. Why should you feel guilt or remorse for killing bad people? There are alot of people out there that deserve killing.

I believe its the media that's convinced soldiers that if you kill someone you have to suffer from some sort of PTSD, guilt, whatever. After killing bad guys, surviving a contact, etc you should feel GOOD.

 

[GAP]

If you have ever watched the old WWII and Korea war movies, you seldom saw the soldier portrayed as being all bent out of shape about doing his job. Since Viet Nam, the movie industry, and journalists, kept feeding the mill about how terrible it is and it really hurts the soldier to have him shoot someone. Now it is at a near frenzy.

It's not earth shattering, nor is a highlight of ones career....it's part of the job, and if you don't shoot him, he will likely shoot you, so he can go off and feel terrible...and join the NDP, and......

 

[the 48th regulator]

So in other words, those that do suffer, must hide it and suck it up.  The media is to blame for all of this, same as these doctors.

NO, I would say it is the air of ignorance, and false machismo that force the soldier who is suffering to suck it up.  Please tell me if anyone feels this conclusion is incorrect;

The prevalences of any past-year mental disorder assessed in the survey and self-perceived need for care were 14.9% and 23.2%, respectively. Most individuals meeting the criteria for a mental disorder diagnosis did not use any mental health services. Deployment to combat operations and witnessing atrocities were associated with increased prevalence of mental disorders and perceived need for care. After adjusting for the effects of exposure to combat and witnessing atrocities, deployment to peacekeeping operations was not associated with increased prevalence of mental disorders.

I am sorry it is bang on.  I did it.  I refused to see anyone.  The system was happy, no money was needed to treat us after we physically healed.

I say rubbish, I hope to be able to see the full report here.  I am sick and tired of this teflon hard edged air that I have been seeing this past couple of years.  There seems to be a misbalance with the compasion in helping those that suffer.  It's as if people are being blamed for looking for some free meal ticket.

dileas

tess

 

[GAP]

That is not what I was trying to say....

PTSD needs to be dealt with, initially by procedures in the field to relieve stress, through the chain of command support and following on through to home with far more support than presently available.

......with that given
Everytime the MSM write/talk about a soldier having difficulty enough to end up in the news, there is, rightly or wrongly, the implication that all soldiers suffer from PTSD, and the populace should not trust them. Better yet, don't let them do anything that will result in PTSD.

I am talking about the message the general public is getting, not the soldiers.

 

[the 48th regulator]

But it is about time the genral public knows, and understands that none of their public money was used to treat the disorder.

They have only been billed for the occasional bandaid that was plastered on a blister.

Now that the influx of those coming forward, programs have been put into place, and the general public feels, ah we are taking care of our troops.

But has the system done this?  Yes recently there has been a push for organized programs to help those that were hurting.  But, even recently we have read the break down within our system?

Why leave the populace in an ignorant bliss, and dismiss these doctors as civvy no goods?

dileas

tess

 

[GAP]

The public does not understand what PTSD is, they probably won't make the attempt to learn unless there is a well organized education program doing so, but they do feel apprehensive about it.

The study that came out this week is a step in that direction. I am not advocating that the public be kept in the dark, I just want there to be accurate, factual data put forth.

The last thing the CF needs is politicians/people with an agenda using the whole issue to point fingers saying....see...see this is what happens, etc.

You are not going to get any argument whatsoever from me about there being a massive need to ramp up the programs and stop dithering around....

 

[the 48th regulator]

I think you and I are on the exact same path, I maybe prematurely buoyed by seeing this kind of reporting, which could be the reason I am prickly for the anyone naysaying.

We have seen too many good soldier chewed up and spit out, when they could have all been integrated back into the system.

I guess we shall wait and see what Wook and MM provide when they get a copy of the full report.

dileas

tess

 

[Greymatters]

Quote
The prevalences of any past-year mental disorder assessed in the survey and self-perceived need for care were 14.9% and 23.2%, respectively. Most individuals meeting the criteria for a mental disorder diagnosis did not use any mental health services. Deployment to combat operations and witnessing atrocities were associated with increased prevalence of mental disorders and perceived need for care. After adjusting for the effects of exposure to combat and witnessing atrocities, deployment to peacekeeping operations was not associated with increased prevalence of mental disorders.

I would have to disagree with this statement though.  This implies that there were little or no PTSD problems associated with peacekeeping missions.  Canandians on humanitarian or observer missions faced with sudden violence or life-threatening situations (which happened more often than officially reported) were just as likely to suffer from PTSD as any other soldier.  I also find the "after adjusting" comment highly suspect.  This in itself implies that peacekeeping missions did not result in exposure to combat or witnessing atrocities , therefore they 'adjusted' it to eliminate those cases.  Sorry, but a lot of people had a hard team seeing that stuff and 'adjusting' the facts wont make the cases go away.   

 

[medicineman]

  I also find the "after adjusting" comment highly suspect.  This in itself implies that peacekeeping missions did not result in exposure to combat or witnessing atrocities , therefore they 'adjusted' it to eliminate those cases.  Sorry, but a lot of people had a hard team seeing that stuff and 'adjusting' the facts wont make the cases go away.   

Hence the reason one needs to read the actual paper and not the abstract - this way they can figure out what the adjustments the researchers are talking about.  I have a few opinions as to what they may be, but I could also be talking out of my backside, so I won't speculate.

MM

 

[3rd Herd]

I too have several questions I will wait for some of the peer reviews both up here and in the US. But the "14.9% and 23.2%," seem to mirror some of the data out of the States. Let's just say I have a well in bred distrust of shrinks, a little too quick to pass out the meds.

 

[medicineman]

Another thought too - criteria for mental disorders doesn't just mean PTSD or ASD - if often means depression as well as any other things out there.  Alot of people of course just jump on the bandwagon of equating one with the other - though you may have them as comorbid problems, they are not one in the same.  Food for thought.

MM

 

[the 48th regulator]

Another thought too - criteria for mental disorders doesn't just mean PTSD or ASD - if often means depression as well as any other things out there.  Alot of people of course just jump on the bandwagon of equating one with the other - though you may have them as comorbid problems, they are not one in the same.  Food for thought.

MM

What are some other mental disorders associated with military duty?

dileas

tess

 

[medicineman]

The two in the limelight are obviously ASD and PTSD, but depression is another big one, I've seen people that develop panic disorders in one shape or other as well, substance abuse if you get techincal.  Often as I said, some of these can end up riding the coat tails of others - people with PTSD or depression hitting the bottle or pills or powder to get some relief or to forget for instance.  That help?

MM

 

[the 48th regulator]

Substance abuse, is not a disorder, it is a form of self medication.  Depression one of the effects of PTSD, sorry in my haze I do not know what ASD is.

As I asked, what are the other mental disorders, as opposed to PTSD that cam occur and be misinterpreted as PTSD with soldiers?

dileas

tess

 

[1feral1]

Substance abuse, is not a disorder, it is a form of self medication.  Depression one of the effects of PTSD, sorry in my haze I do not know what ASD is.

As I asked, what are the other mental disorders, as opposed to PTSD that cam occur and be misinterpreted as PTSD with soldiers?

dileas

tess

If I was not on duty til 0800 tomorrow, I'd be wanting to drown myself in a 1.14 bottle of Canadian Club ( but I reckon I am getting anulcer maybe) tonight. The loss of those six mbrs KIA for some reason has really effected me today.

Your right Tess. Depression and anxiety hold hand and hand. I am not saying I have PTSD, but I do have some issues which are gradually decreasing in frequency (and hopefully more so over time - its only been 3 months since I have been home). Others from my tour have been totally overwhelmed by PTSD.

Now WTF is ASD???


Cheers,

Wes

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Kiwi99]

Tess and I have disagreed in the past about many things.  But with ref to  PTSD, it does exist, on varying levels and at different times. There is no denying that.  People can see and od stuff that is going to effect them, human nature is all.  However, I also agree that people make too ig a deal out of it.  When we got back in Aug 06 we had the mental health debriefs, the PTSD debriefs.  Not a single person said that it was OK to feel good.  We were bombarded with info about what we should feel like, what others may be feeling.  90% of the soldiers walk out at the end wondering if they have PTSD because they are heaby sllepers, or cough three times in a row.  The info helped, but I wish that they would tell people that it is good to feel good.

The other problem with PTSD is diagnosing it.  Just like a back injury, you can never be 100% that you are getting the truth.  We had a guy who demanded to be on the first flight out, and didn't get a spot.  So he said his wife was sick,  she  wasn't.  So he went to the mental health people and told them that he was looney tunes, and gets on the first flight out.  Now he is going on tour again cause he feels better all of a sudden.  But nobody could say that he didn't have PTSD.  Also, remember how they always say that one of the best cures is to get you back with your buddies right away...why don't they do that.  Again, we had some guys who went to see mental health in KAF after a pretty bad day.  The Coy was at that time in Spin Boldak.  The guyys were confined to KAF until they felt better.  So now you have a Pl that has 4 KIA, 10 WIA, and another 6 confined to KAF because the mental health people say so.  And there is still Pl level tasks to be done.

Yes, PTSD is an ongoing issue.  Yes, we are getting better at dealing with it.  Yes, it can be bluffed.  Yes, killing jundiues is a good thing and you should never feel remorse for doing it.  Especially in 'me or him' enviroment.  Tell ya what,  if anything, I sleep better knowing  what I've done.

 

[GAP]

Yes, PTSD is an ongoing issue.  Yes, we are getting better at dealing with it.  Yes, it can be bluffed.  Yes, killing jundiues is a good thing and you should never feel remorse for doing it.  Especially in 'me or him' enviroment.  Tell ya what,  if anything, I sleep better knowing  what I've done.

That message needs to get out more....a lot of what I keep hearing is as you said earlier...people looking over their shoulders wondering if they should have PTSD...there is nothing wrong with having done your job well.

 

[the 48th regulator]

That message needs to get out more....a lot of what I keep hearing is as you said earlier...people looking over their shoulders wondering if they should have PTSD...there is nothing wrong with having done your job well.

Very good point, however, the sooner it is recognized as being present, the quicker it can be handled allowing the soldier to fully recover and be integrated back to the duty he was performing before.  And, still carry the pride of a job well done.

dileas

tess

 

[GAP]

Very good point, however, the sooner it is recognized as being present, the quicker it can be handled allowing the soldier to fully recover and be integrated back to the duty he was performing before.  And, still carry the pride of a job well done.

dileas

tess

Somehow we have to get the message across to young macho guys who have lived on the wild side that is NOT  a weakness to admit there is something wrong. Right now there is still a stigma in some people's minds that if they go for help, others will think less of them for it.

 

[the 48th regulator]

You hit the nail on the head, bang on.

It took me a very long time that my destructive behaviour was just that.  Wrong.  I did not want to admit I was "Weak", which is a common  theme within the military.  We can't be weak, however there is nothing wrong with saying one hurts, let's get some help to heal that so I can carry on.

dileas

tess