Strike

[Remius]

My wife is PSAC….her and her coworkers HATE this strike and just want to go back to work. The mall food court near me in Ottawa is full of PS workers who just want to sit and drink coffee. Only the militant arseholes are doing stuff. My wife said one loud mouth strike captain wanted people to block a main road. Fortunately, the workers just looked at her like she was insane.

It’s pretty much what I’ve seen. I think at one point they were looking to slow traffic where I was at and no one was interested. My small group was asked to delay people at an entrance and we pretty much said no thanks.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm happy it sounds like at large the PSAC members recognize this was a mistake.

Perhaps some union leadership changes are needed.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I'm happy it sounds like at large the PSAC members recognize this was a mistake.

Perhaps some union leadership changes are needed.

They obviously are.....but, unless there is s process to hire from outside(I have no idea if there is or not), you'll still have either the militants, the idealists, the power searching, and/or the foreign Govt paid plants pushing for those jobs.
Steve the centrist tax clerk just wants to do his 8 hours and then make sure his kids make it to swimming lessons, so he isn't going to step up.

 

[Remius]

I'm happy it sounds like at large the PSAC members recognize this was a mistake.

A new contract was certainly overdue. And to be fair a real offer was not made until a strike had been called. But it didn’t have to come to this point. The union put itself in a corner when the last counter offer came which most found more than fair but then walked away. Then realized that a lot of the membership might just cross at that point.

Perhaps some union leadership changes are needed.

I have no idea how it works but if union elections are handled the way the strike vote was handled I am not confident that can happen.

 

[Halifax Tar]

A new contract was certainly overdue. And to be fair a real offer was not made until a strike had been called. But it didn’t have to come to this point. The union put itself in a corner when the last counter offer came which most found more than fair but then walked away. Then realized that a lot of the membership might just cross at that point.

I have no idea how it works but if union elections are handled the way the strike vote was handled I am not confident that can happen.

Everyone in the middle class and below is fighting to keep their finances and lives in order at the moment. And it's probably going to get worse.

Going on strike for more pay and benefits at this time was a ridiculous move. Tie that in with the ridiculous growth of the PS and I can fully see Johnny Canadian's lack of support and outright derision towards it.

The one part I do support is the use of
WFH. This needs to be embraced for many many reasons.

 

[dimsum]

Then realized that a lot of the membership might just cross at that point.

I have no idea how union strikes work so this will sound really dumb, but by that do you mean PSAC folks will say "screw it, I'm going back to work - fine or no fine"?

Or is it some other group within PSAC that...uh...counter-organizes and says "we're crossing"?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Can union members hold a strike against a strike and return to work ?

 

[mariomike]

Never been on strike. Was only in a "muni" union.

But, nothing blew the "I pay your salary" types minds more than the Sick Bank Gratuity.

Thankfully, the SHTF after I retired. It was not a "cause célèbre" prior to that.

Never mentioned was the fact that it was negotiated shortly after the war.

It made the mayor of the time look good for re-election, because he would be long gone before they would have to pay off on it.

 

[Remius]

I have no idea how union strikes work so this will sound really dumb, but by that do you mean PSAC folks will say "screw it, I'm going back to work - fine or no fine"?

Exactly this. Not the sound dumb thing though.

Or is it some other group within PSAC that...uh...counter-organizes and says "we're crossing"?

I haven’t seen any of that or know if that is a thing. I have heard though that sometime locals don’t always agree with national’s decisions or positions. Not sure if that is happening though.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Can union members hold a strike against a strike and return to work ?

I'd say "no".....they are the ones that gave the mandate. (in a normal non-suspect vote)
Now usually all a strike mandate does is give one more tool in the negotiating tool box. Doesn't need to be used, and IMO, shouldn't have been used here so soon.


What they can do is accept an offer via vote
which you will hear of an offer not being brought to the members, (votes are costly) if the leadership doesn't think it's good enough.
Standard stuff, as management could just bankrupt the Union by adding small gains to each offer.

EDIT: whoops, I thought you said "vote against the strike now" Well its there in case it does get asked.

 

[Remius]

Can union members hold a strike against a strike and return to work ?

I suppose that is one way to look at it. And I think the union is afraid that might happen.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I suppose that is one way to look at it. And I think the union is afraid that might happen.

Unions worst nightmare.....and km sure there are some sleepless nights in PSAC's ivory tower.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I suppose that is one way to look at it. And I think the union is afraid that might happen.

My question is where does ones right to organize end ?

If you can organize against your employer surly you can organize against a union as well.

Have some unions grown to big and turned into self licking ice cream cones ? In our time of social media an instant information share are they even useful ? Or have they just become a golden cow of employment ?

An interesting contrast is private sector vs public sector unions. Private sector unions have to take into account that if their demands drive the company into the ground its a loss for everyone, so they have a vested interest in keeping the company alive.

Public sector doesn't have that, they can simply keep demanding and the not have to account for their or the company's performance. Everyone in Canada sees tax dollar as a bottomless money pot.

 

[Remius]

Everyone in the middle class and below is fighting to keep their finances and lives in order at the moment. And it's probably going to get worse.

Understood and don’t think that that isn’t on most members’ minds. I haven’t once heard any of my colleagues complain about about the compensation package. Even leading up to this and even if the offer was a lowball.

Going on strike for more pay and benefits at this time was a ridiculous move. Tie that in with the ridiculous growth of the PS and I can fully see Johnny Canadian's lack of support and outright derision towards it.

If the CAF had received a 6% increase (which was what was offered to PSAC) instead of 10% I am sure that it would not have gone over well. To be honest though, most would have taken that number as anything is better than nothing. As for growth it is in certain sectors of the PS and I am not 100% sure but a lot were term positions created during the pandemic. There will be work force adjustments coming in the next few years I am sure of it. Regardless of who gets into power. And it won’t be fun for anyone. DRAP was a hot mess and it will be again.

The one part I do support is the use of
WFH. This needs to be embraced for many many reasons.

This is the biggest concern I think. It’s been a yo yo and not handled very well by the employer. That could have also been leveraged much better by both sides as a bargaining tool.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Understood and don’t think that that isn’t on most members’ minds. I haven’t once heard any of my colleagues complain about about the compensation package. Even leading up to this and even if the offer was a lowball.

If the CAF had received a 6% increase (which was what was offered to PSAC) instead of 10% I am sure that it would not have gone over well. To be honest though, most would have taken that number as anything is better than nothing. As for growth it is in certain sectors of the PS and I am not 100% sure but a lot were term positions created during the pandemic. There will be work force adjustments coming in the next few years I am sure of it. Regardless of who gets into power. And it won’t be fun for anyone. DRAP was a hot mess and it will be again.

This is the biggest concern I think. It’s been a yo yo and not handled very well by the employer. That could have also been leveraged much better by both sides as a bargaining tool.

Difference is CAF members would have said "huh, that's shitty", then climbed back in their LAV turret or rowboat or Sopwith Hornet and got on with their jobs, not throw their teddy out of the pram and refuse to work.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Understood and don’t think that that isn’t on most members’ minds. I haven’t once heard any of my colleagues complain about about the compensation package. Even leading up to this and even if the offer was a lowball.

It might not be on your minds, but I can tell you every private sector work I know is looking at the PS with side eye now.

If the CAF had received a 6% increase (which was what was offered to PSAC) instead of 10% I am sure that it would not have gone over well. To be honest though, most would have taken that number as anything is better than nothing. As for growth it is in certain sectors of the PS and I am not 100% sure but a lot were term positions created during the pandemic. There will be work force adjustments coming in the next few years I am sure of it. Regardless of who gets into power. And it won’t be fun for anyone. DRAP was a hot mess and it will be again.

The CAF is not a fair comparison. We have no mechanism to bargain for better wages and benefits. We take what the TBS and GOC hand out and we like it or lump it. Our "raise" for most of the CAF is negated by the loss of PLD. Most of us will break even, or have temporary growth that will fade over time.

Not to mention what the people of and GoC expects CAF members to do VS what they expect PS members to do is vastly different.

 

[Remius]

My question is where does ones right to organize end ?

I don’t think that right has an end as far as I know.

If you can organize against your employer surly you can organize against a union as well.

Possibly but that is a lot of work likely and would not be pretty. Most people are not that militant though or have the militancy or skills or knowledge to do that. Or the time to do that for likely no money and plenty of frustration.

Have some unions grown to big and turned into self licking ice cream cones ? In our time of social media an instant information share are they even useful ?

I would say yes to an extent. The RCMP association managed to organise and get themselves appropriate representation. I’m not a union guy by any means but I think they have a place. But like anything it can get used and abused.

An interesting contrast is private sector vs public sector unions. Private sector unions have to take into account that if their demands drive the company into the ground its a loss for everyone, so they have a vested interest in keeping the company alive.

Private sector unions have been shrinking over the decades. And I think that is why some people struggle and I think I agree that instead of asking why should others get something we don’t have we should be asking why others can’t get what we have.

Public sector doesn't have that, they can simply keep demanding and the not have to account for their or the company's performance. Everyone in Canada sees tax dollar as a bottomless money pot.

This whole thing could be stopped with back to work legislation. But we all know why that won’t happen in this current environment. Private sector doesn’t have that issue.

 

[Remius]

Difference is CAF members would have said "huh, that's shitty", then climbed back in their LAV turret or rowboat or Sopwith Hornet and got on with their jobs, not throw their teddy out of the pram and refuse to work.

And so would PS employees if that deal was taken or forced on them via legislation. Sorry but the complaints I’ve seen about what the CAF just got wasn’t just “huh that’s shitty”. It was mostly about quitting outright.

 

[Jarnhamar]

But they're dicking us around for our benefit guys!!!!

They need to be reminded who is protecting them from a total take over by ISIS.

The sad part is that even with them on strike, there appears to be little impact on services. Those services are just as bad now as they are when they're at work.

100%
Public Service has grown exponentially under Trudeau. Most services are slower than ever. Impact with 155,000 people on strike seems minimal so far.
Like most of the military, they sat at home during Covid collecting a pay check while a lot of Canadians lost jobs or were impacted.

And the demand to work at home? My experice dealing with military members working from home is that it sure as heck isn't going to speed up productivity.

Any way you look at it working for public service is a sweet gig.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Any way you look at it working for public service is a sweet gig.

It is. You don't often hear of someone leaving the PS for a life in the CAF or the private sector. But lots of folks from both those areas would kick their Grammys in the shin for a PS job.