Survey on Future Remembrance Ceremonies

[lenaitch]

I wouldn't be particularly keen on the cadet organization getting tasked with it: was just casting around for the next-best-distributed single organization with a military bent. There's 145 JCR patrols and 1088 cadet corps/squadrons, though some of the latter are doubled or tripled up in a community (Sea/Army/Air), though the same thing might be said for Legion branches in some areas.

Agreed as far as existing memorials with religious symbols. I'm also game, on principle, to do the respectful silence thing; however, I'm not a fan of either a singular religious voice, especially if they're without military or RCL links, or every local officiant having a go at the cenotaph.

You can almost manage the latter if a community has a relatively sparse religious selection: around here, there's Sikhs, Buddhists, IIRC Hindus, a patchwork of First Nations, and a comprehensive sampling of Christians, with physical places of worship in the Cowichan Valley, and a few more without. Best to consign that to a separate event.

Actually, as a "displease almost everyone equally" choice, if there must be a religious element, let it be a CAF chaplain and/or someone from the local First Nation. Neither available? Strike prayer from the program.

Most of my Remembrance Day experience has been in small town Ontario which are generally pretty white-bread. In more recent years, they have often included an Aboriginal invocation (since there is no such thing as Aboriginal clergy, it is usually an elder or the chief). I think the community where I most recently attend, the 'religious part' is delivered by the Legion Chaplain, which is fair.

I also enjoyed the recently-late Rabbi Bulka at the National Memorial. As is often the case with Jewish clergy, it often struck me more a quick philosophical presentation than a sermon.

Like you, I have more issue with the parade of local nabobs who feel compelled to speak, and the parade of wreathes from some of the darndest organizations. Good for contributing but do it before or after. November weather here can be crappy and I recall being frozen or wet or both and looking at the vets and figuring if they can do it, so can I, but it's gotta be tough on them standing while somebody drones on or the local Remax agent places a wreath.

 

[Weinie]

Most of my Remembrance Day experience has been in small town Ontario which are generally pretty white-bread. In more recent years, they have often included an Aboriginal invocation (since there is no such thing as Aboriginal clergy, it is usually an elder or the chief). I think the community where I most recently attend, the 'religious part' is delivered by the Legion Chaplain, which is fair.

I also enjoyed the recently-late Rabbi Bulka at the National Memorial. As is often the case with Jewish clergy, it often struck me more a quick philosophical presentation than a sermon.

Like you, I have more issue with the parade of local nabobs who feel compelled to speak, and the parade of wreathes from some of the darndest organizations. Good for contributing but do it before or after. November weather here can be crappy and I recall being frozen or wet or both and looking at the vets and figuring if they can do it, so can I, but it's gotta be tough on them standing while somebody drones on or the local Remax agent places a wreath.

I have tried to inculcate into my two oldest boys (14 and 9) the rationale and understanding why it is important to celebrate Nov 11th. For the last three years, it has been yadda,yadda,yadda at the microphone, followed by an interminable amount of wreath layings; to the point where my second oldest boy said " Who are all these people"? Neither of them expressed any interest in attending again. It really has no relevance to them.

The only thing that has captivated them has been the F-18 flypast, after the national ceremony in downtown Ottawa.

 

[dangerboy]

Here is info from Veterans Affairs on the survey that they did. The future of remembrance in Canada

 

[Kilted]

Here is info from Veterans Affairs on the survey that they did. The future of remembrance in Canada

It's not as horrible as I thought it was going to be, it doesn't look like they are trying to change anything fundamental.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

It's not as horrible as I thought it was going to be, it doesn't look like they are trying to change anything fundamental.

I put my two cents in. A lot of this looks as though it's more of a revamp than a complete remodel. Good to see.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I hope they don't make it a holiday; I think the status quo works much better for all the kids to do participate in something at school, where they can actually learn something. Otherwise they are just generally freezing outside and impatient. A lot of employers shut down anyway to let people attend, so I think it's more meaningful currently.

 

[Kilted]

I put my two cents in. A lot of this looks as though it's more of a revamp than a complete remodel. Good to see.

Yeah, no rainbow poppies, removal of battle honours, or directions not to have arms in public, it's a lot better than I thought.

 

[mariomike]

I hope they don't make it a holiday;

Remembrance Day: National holiday?/"Veterans' Day"? (merged)

Arbor Memorial video. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=remembrance+day+video&&view=detail&mid=4B3D110C8E984DF4DFE44B3D110C8E984DF4DFE4&&FORM=VDRVSR

army.ca

It was a Stat Holiday where I worked. Not sure how many attended services.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Remembrance Day: National holiday?/"Veterans' Day"? (merged)

Arbor Memorial video. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=remembrance+day+video&&view=detail&mid=4B3D110C8E984DF4DFE44B3D110C8E984DF4DFE4&&FORM=VDRVSR

army.ca

It was a Stat Holiday where I worked. Not sure how many attended services.

That was great, thanks for sharing.

Unfortunately I don't think BC mainland's weather is representative of most of the country in mid November.

Only heard through the grapevine that in the US a lot of the Memorial weekend is just a long weekend party, with the commemoration being forgotten by most. I think what we do now is serving the intended purpose, and I think if we had it as a stat holiday a lot of people who aren't going now wouldn't participate anyway.

At least with Remembrance Day there are cermonies etc, with the Reconcilation Day there wasn't really anything, so was a bit weird. I attended a virtual reconciliation talk earlier in the month that was pretty well done with a number of survivors sharing their stories, which was at least something.

Just my $0.02, but I think most kids across the country that are in school doing something on Remembrance Day learn something from it, and there are usually a few currently serving parents as guests as well to make it a bit more concrete for the kids that it's not just something from the past.

 

[OldSolduer]

Just my $0.02, but I think most kids across the country that are in school doing something on Remembrance Day learn something from it, and there are usually a few currently serving parents as guests as well to make it a bit more concrete for the kids that it's not just something from the past.

In my granddaughter's school they put a Power Point together with all the veterans who had relatives in the school. It was very nice of the staff of the school to do that.
Last Remembrance Day one of Mike's former teachers invited us to the ceremony at his old school. The bugler - a 14 year old boy - played for the same team my grandson did. Small world.

 

[Furniture]

I hope they don't make it a holiday; I think the status quo works much better for all the kids to do participate in something at school, where they can actually learn something. Otherwise they are just generally freezing outside and impatient. A lot of employers shut down anyway to let people attend, so I think it's more meaningful currently.

9 of the 13 provinces and territories already have it as a holiday...

I think it's a bit bizarre that Ontario hasn't made it a provincial holiday. If it stays on 11 Nov there is less chance of it becoming a Memorial Day type of shopping holiday.

 

[ueo]

Veteran Affairs Canada is looking for input on how we conduct Remembrance Day. They have a survey asking questions as they want to change the traditional service. Here is a link to the survey, please provide your vital input.

The future of remembrance in Canada

Obviously not well advertised. Just heard about it today, went to the site to find it closed 16 Jul. Why such a poor PR job? If it was on HR or gun ctl would have been all over everywhere. Guess I'm feeling disenfranchised.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The RCL are in control of Remembrance Day. The government needs to keep their nose out of it. The government provides us politicians (which we can do without) to babble about unceded land and some old Veteran that lived down the street. The trudeau liberals have started this initiative of intruding government on Remembrance Day. If it was started by him, it won't bode well. We know there's an alternative reason he pushing it. We'll
just have to wait til he drops it on us to,find out what it is. Veterans are Veterans are Veterans. Not black Veterans, not aboriginal Veterans, not oriental ones or white ones. We are Veterans period and that day is reserved for ALL Veterans and the Fallen. Not for meddling grits to push their woke agenda on Remembrance Day

 

[Remius]

I’ve done 25 remembrance days in Ottawa, the PM, MND, GG etc have always been there. Not one of them speaks.

What do you mean by government intrusion?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

The RCL are in control of Remembrance Day.

Actually it's VAC, with support locally by the RCL. The RCL is about as much of a veteran run organization as the Rotary Club or the Masonic Order.

The government needs to keep their nose out of it.

Seems as if it's definitely within their wheelhouse... seeing as VAC is a federal department and the CAF/RCMP yield to civilian authority

The government provides us politicians (which we can do without) to babble about unceded land and some old Veteran that lived down the street.

Actually, the Canadian people provide us with elected politicians to represent ALL Canadians, not just the ones who bark the loudest. Sometimes it's the person you want, sometimes it's who everyone else wanted and you're SOL. If they have the support and feel like that unceded land and veteran down the street are worth their attention, they're acting on behalf of the majority who voted for them.

The trudeau liberals have started this initiative of intruding government on Remembrance Day.

This is blatantly false. Governments of every political stripe have been involved in Remembrance Day since it's inception. The fact I am ordered to put on boots and support Small Town Ontario's cenotaph ceremony is a testament to that.

If it was started by him, it won't bode well. We know there's an alternative reason he pushing it. We'll
just have to wait til he drops it on us to,find out what it is.

If history has shown anything, it's that the CAF and VAC issues are the furthest thing from Mr. Trudeau's priority list, just above a Canadian Moon Landing and finding Big Foot.

Veterans are Veterans are Veterans. Not black Veterans, not aboriginal Veterans, not oriental ones or white ones. We are Veterans period and that day is reserved for ALL Veterans and the Fallen.

You have me in agreement on this point, right up until...

Not for meddling grits to push their woke agenda on Remembrance Day

It's not a woke agenda to encorporate recognition of VETERANS that have historically been shut out of the itineraries.

Being marched into a Church Parade with the majority of a Regiment being practicing Muslims, Sikhs, or Hindus seems like it's not catering to ALL Veterans. Hell most of my Regiment are either NRE, Norse Pagan, or something other than an OPD, Catholic, or Anglican.

Canada has become less secular, more heterogeneous, and it's reflected in both the CAF and therefore in the veteran population. Singing "O God Our Help In Ages Past" and giving the Benediction at the cenotaph seem like pandering to a minority now. The shoe is on the other foot now.

 

[Kilted]

So, I haven't seen a CANFORGEN yet, but have the new biodegradable Poppy's been authorized for wear in uniform?

 

[brihard]

So, I haven't seen a CANFORGEN yet, but have the new biodegradable Poppy's been authorized for wear in uniform?

If they’re the poppy distributed by the Legion, why wouldn’t they be? The dress regs say “The Royal Canadian Legion Poppy”.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

9 of the 13 provinces and territories already have it as a holiday...

I think it's a bit bizarre that Ontario hasn't made it a provincial holiday. If it stays on 11 Nov there is less chance of it becoming a Memorial Day type of shopping holiday.

Ontario doesn't do it for a couple of reasons. Our population and industry here would lose large millions of dollars, in shutting down industry and paying millions of workers for the day if it were a stat holiday. Our population, of a small country, and workforce is too large to entertain it. Second, a large part of our population would just treat it as a holiday. Most other provinces don't have anywhere near our population, so they can decide they can afford it. Ontario can't ignore that kind of loss. Which, incidentally, is a reason Ford killed the protest at the Ambassador Bridge. He let them have their fun. Until too many companies had to close due to loss in supplies affecting their production along with the layoff of thousands of workers. It was costing Ontario taxpayers millions every day. Problems less populous province didn't have to contend with.

Ontario has nine public holidays:

1. New Year's Day
2. Family Day
3. Good Friday
4. Victoria Day
5. Canada Day
6. Labour Day
7. Thanksgiving Day
8. Christmas Day
9. Boxing Day (December 26) Many companies and unions have agreed to trade out Family Day for Remembrance Day. Chrysler gave it to us without penalty as do a number of companies in Ontario. However, that is their decision, not the governments

 

[mariomike]

It is a tradition in France to place chysanthemums on graves on All Saints Day.

The seven members ( 5 RCAF and 2 RAF ) of the Lancaster crew my uncle was KIA with are buried in the communal cemetery nearest to where they were shot down.

They are the only non-French war graves in it. But, it was very nice to see photos of chysanthemums the townsfolk placed on their graves too.

Can not speak highly enough of the people in that town.

Although there we no survivors ( it was a shrage muzik attack, returning with a full bomb load ) there were other survivors among the 41 Lancasters shot down over occupied France on the Revigny raid in July 1944, and the people helped them evade and escape. Some were captured.

In the book Rendez-vous 127, The Diary of Anne Brusselmanns, ACM Sir Basil Embry wrote:

It is perhaps difficult for anyone who has not lived under the oppression of German occupation and witnessed first-hand the frightful evil of Gestapo police methods to appreciate fully what it meant to work in direct opposition to them.
The married man or woman caught harbouring an Allied airman brought reprisals on the whole family - even small children were put to death. This was the price for patriotism, and as the Gestapo held most of the cards, the odds were strongly in their favour.
Their peril was far greater than that of the airman whom they helped, because if the evader was caught, he would merely become a prisoner of war, but if they were found helping or sheltering him they were tortured and shot.

 

[dimsum]

So, I haven't seen a CANFORGEN yet, but have the new biodegradable Poppy's been authorized for wear in uniform?

I haven't seen them - do they look visibly different than the "standad" RCL ones? Would anyone notice?