SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)

[Scoobs]

It's interesting to try to watch the refugee discussion that is ongoing in Canada while being posted OUTCAN. 

FYI, here's what it is like in the States:

-huge ongoing discussion about bringing 10,000 (yes, only 10,000) Syrian refugees to the States;
-there's no deadline to get them here (interesting, eh?);
-Obama basically wants to go full steam ahead;
-the Republicans and some Democrats want it slowed down (the House of Representatives passed a bill that would effectively do this, but it still has to go through their Senate.  Obama has stated that he will veto it.  This will be interesting as both the House and Senate can override a Presidential veto if they have 2/3 support in each, which they did in the House);
-more than half of the State Governors have stated that the refugees are not welcome, although the general consensus is that they have no legal basis to do that;
-there is real fear amongst the Americans.  Some of my wife's American friends have curtailed their travel to NYC as they are really scared;
-that being said, NYC is still functioning as New Yorkers tend to be of the opinion, "hey, we gotta live life";
-there is a firm belief that the security clearing is insufficient (remember, they don't have a deadline like Canada); and
-of course, there are very extreme views on both sides.

Now, compare this to Canada (this includes some of my opinions):

-an election promise has somehow turned into a firm and hard deadline.  Besides the Government of Canada telling us to do it (which is of course what we will follow so please no statements like, "because the Government told us to"), can someone give me an operational reason why 31 Dec / 1 Jan 16 is such an important date?  I'm not being sarcastic, is there one?
-10,000 vs 25,000, that's a considerable difference between what the US and Canada are taking, respectively; and
-if the vast majority of the refugees are being taken out of camps in Jordan, Turkey, and Lebanon, what's the rush?  Are they in danger there?  It is my understanding that they are not as after all, we are being told that a large number of them have been in the subject camps for approx 4 years now.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I still have the same question I asked in the post which split this off: why are these refugees more deserving and in need of front-of-the-line privileges than any others?  (I get that it's a public pose for most people; I'm asking if there is really anything beyond that.)

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Rumour mil reports that Pers in shacks in kingston just got told that they were being moved to older shacks to make way for refugees.

Curious how they're going to secure 1 EW, 1 div HQ, and CFJSR

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So kick the troops out of their current shacks so they can live in the old ones.  Sorry, I don't agree with this.  :

 

[Cloud Cover]

So kick the troops out of their current shacks so they can live in the old ones.  Sorry, I don't agree with this.  :

I dont agree with it either, but in the end, one has to wonder why any accommodations on a CFB base are substandard. the answer lies in  the fact the successive governments from 1968 to the present have not adequately funded base maintenance, they wouldn't even pay the cost of demolishing or refurbishing outdated buildings, even though for more the 25 years they have a list of those buildings. That especially includes PM Harper, who in his final years in office spent less on defence (GDP) than PET(by GDP).       

 

[PuckChaser]

Couldn't resist a Harper dig, could you? Underfunding base facilities is a bi-partisan issue. It's not especially attributable to anyone.

Has CBC gotten a story out that soldiers are being evicted (without proper notice)? I think its an important issue that Trudeau needs to answer to.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Just calling a spade a spade. I wish he were a diamond. 

 

[McG]

... they wouldn't even pay the cost of demolishing or refurbishing outdated buildings, ...

There have been plenty of buildings demolished in the last few years to reduce PILT and other associated costs.

 

[Old Sweat]

The rumour net is working overtime and there is no end of speculation about the reception plans. It may be a very interesting four years, but let's wait and see what Tuesday brings.

 

[dimsum]

The rumour net is working overtime and there is no end of speculation about the reception plans. It may be a very interesting four years, but let's wait and see what Tuesday brings.

Exactly, and I'll bring up Journeyman's post from this very thread:

There are a significant number of military personnel right now whose throw-away COA of 'wringing hands and wishing what might have been' is long past.  Whether it's a steaming pile of feces or a brilliant humanitarian move no longer matters for those whose focus is on, "OK, let's get this done."

 

[PPCLI Guy]

"Canada's government will inevitably have to cut some corners on security screening to achieve its ambitious goal of bringing in 25,000 Syrian refugees by year-end ..."

That would be inappropriate if it turned out to be true.

As progressives are fond of pointing out, taxes are what we pay for the services we receive.

One of the services Canadians pay taxes for is to not be the victims of someone who should not be admitted to the country, but is admitted because short cuts are taken in order to satisfy the virtue posturing of those who suddenly took an interest in one particular source of refugees because a picture of a child's corpse showed up in their Facebook feeds.

Reuters is reporting, citing unnamed sources, that "Canada's government will inevitably have to cut some corners on security screening to achieve its ambitious goal of bringing in 25,000 Syrian refugees by year-end ..."

So how about we wait for the fricken plan before we declare it to be junk, instead of quoting that famous Chinese strategist, Sum Gi, to feed our own preconceived notions?

 

[Haggis]

So how about we wait for the fricken plan before we declare it to be junk, instead of quoting that famous Chinese strategist, Sum Gi, to feed our own preconceived notions?

Because Sum Gi and his cousin Buddi are the most prolific and popular sources of information in the absence of official direction.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>So how about we wait for the fricken plan before we declare it to be junk, instead of quoting that famous Chinese strategist, Sum Gi, to feed our own preconceived notions?

Better to express reservations beforehand, the better to prevent someone from promulgating junk.

 

[Jarnhamar]

My suspicions

1. The $$$ figure we've recently been given regarding the cost of housing and supporting our new guests will rapidly go the way of the F35 project and end up being a hell of a lot more.

2. Our new guests will be placed in these winterized accommodations,  complain about how shitty it is,  and rapidly be moved into much more comfortable living quarters.  See below.

3. Our military members will be moved from quarters they're presently living in to other quarters,  including being "down graded".

4. Security will be compromised for image. 

 

[McG]

>So how about we wait for the fricken plan before we declare it to be junk, instead of quoting that famous Chinese strategist, Sum Gi, to feed our own preconceived notions?

Better to express reservations beforehand, the better to prevent someone from promulgating junk.

It is called a strawman.  Making-up conditions that are easy to attack, and then attacking the false reality to undermine what is real.

Constructive critisism would describe the conditions necessary for success.  Instead, this thread has its share of posts taking shots from positions of ignorance.

 

[Brad Sallows]

There's nothing "made up" about the widespread belief - "expert opinion", where experts hold it - that the deadline for moving the desired number of refugees is too aggressive.

 

[Jarnhamar]

There is a picture circulating around social media that some soldiers in Kingston got. Members presently living in single quarters in certain buildings need to pack their bags and move into 4 person rooms to make room for our guests to use the single rooms.  I'm just guessing but I can't imagine they'll try to cram whole families in this single rooms.  I hope whole barracks buildings are given over to our guests and they're not placed piecemeal.

 

[PuckChaser]

Maybe they'll put them in the Dawe Building, so they can trash them like the Kosovars did to Sherman Hall. That way, all of our barracks can be $@#!holes that DND overcharges for.

 

[Scoobs]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/troops-clearing-space-at-cfb-kingston-for-syrian-refugees-1.2670111

Graham Slaughter, CTVNews.ca Staff
Published Sunday, November 22, 2015 10:25PM EST

Soldiers and military personnel at a Kingston, Ont. base are being asked to clear their barracks to make room for an early wave of Syrian refugees arriving in just over a week, CTV News has learned.
Multiple residences at CFB Kingston are being cleared for Nov. 30 to house the refugees, according to an internal memo obtained by CTV News.
The orders will also affect some officer cadets attending the Royal Military College, many of whom are nearing exams.

Sources tell CTV News that several military bases across Canada are gearing up to host Syrian refugees.

On Tuesday, the government is expected to reveal more details of its plan to resettle 25,000 Syrians by the end of the year.
And while the memo warns of the fast-approaching deadline, it does not indicate where military personnel will be resettled. However, it does say a place will be found for the personnel.
The notice comes just two days after Minister of Immigration and Refugees John McCallum reaffirmed the government’s plan to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of 2015.
“We are determined to bring refugees here quickly, but we are also determined to do it right in terms of security and in terms of health,” he said.
“This is the right thing to do,” he added. “It is the Canadian way.”
Sources also tell CTV News that several bases across the country are gearing up to host the newcomers, with a maximum capacity of about 12,000 Syrian refugees.
Earlier this month, CTV News reported details from a document entitled “Operation Syrian Refugees” that suggested up to 900 Syrian refugees a day could arrive in Toronto and Montreal from Lebanon, Jordan and possibly Turkey.
Those arrivals could begin as soon as soon as Dec. 1, the report suggested.
The document also identified places such as Cornwall, Ont. and Trois-Rivières, Que. as possible sites for temporary accommodation.
The document suggested refugees would be identified overseas by the United Nations and then screened by Canadian officials on the ground.
The refugees would be screened once again in Canada before receiving permanent resident status, the document said.
The government is expected to confirm its plan Tuesday.
In the past, military bases have been used to house newcomers to Canada. In 1999, 5,000 refugees from Kosovo were divided between two military bases: CFB Greenwood in Nova Scotia and CFB Trenton in Ontario.
Despite short notice, the plan was executed successfully, according to retired Brig.-Gen. Gaston Cloutier, who was on the Trenton base at the time.
“It was hard work, but it was done properly,” he told CTV’s Power Play last month.

 

[The Bread Guy]

This from CBC.ca - highlights mine....

The federal government's much-anticipated Syrian refugee plan will limit those accepted into Canada to women, children and families only, CBC News has learned.

Sources tell CBC News that to deal with some ongoing concerns around security, unaccompanied men seeking asylum will not be part of the program.

The details of the plan will be announced Tuesday, but already Canadian officials have been working on the ground to process people.

In the last six weeks alone, Canadian authorities have managed to screen about 100 people a day in Lebanon to help the government reach its ambitious of target of getting 25,000 Syrian refugees here by the end of the year.

These are on top of the refugees being processed by the United Nations Refugee Agency.

(....)

As many as 900 refugees a day are expected to arrive from Turkey, Jordan and Beirut. The vast majority of them will arrive in Toronto and Montreal.

Sources say most of the newcomers will initially be housed in military bases, which have been preparing for their arrival. Other kinds of housing will also be used, including hotels and abandoned hospitals.

But sources also say the government will stay away from calling any of these temporary housing locations "camps" — perhaps to stay away from the notion that refugee camps are typically large-scale and temporary, often using tents.

Refugees will not be housed in tents in Canada.

Moreover, once in Canada, officials broadly expect refugees to be "mobile" in about a month's time: While thousands of people may arrive temporarily in one location, they may quickly disperse throughout Canada.

There had been some initial concerns about trying to "contain" refugees to any given location for too long, given that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees mobility rights. Those rights apply to refugees once they arrive in Canada and could open the government up to potential legal problems, if applied ....