- Reaction score
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Two Words..
Judge Dredd...
and you get to utter cool catch phrases like " I AM THE LAW!"
Judge Dredd...
and you get to utter cool catch phrases like " I AM THE LAW!"
TASER OPINIONS?
- Thread starter pbi
- Start date
- Status
- Reaction score
- 0
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So, as taser opinions go, I think I trust the Canadian Police Association. I came across this open letter to Sen. Colin Kenny:
http://www.oppa.on.ca/images/homepage/Senator%20Kenny%20November%2028-letterhead.pdf
November 28, 2007
The Honourable Colin Kenny, Senator
Senate of Canada
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0A4
Fax (613) 996-3737
Email kennyco@sen.parl.gc.ca
Dear Senator Kenny:
We are writing on behalf of the 57,000 members of the Canadian Police Association, to voice our extreme displeasure and disappointment over your recent public commentary concerning Conducted Energy Devices (CED).
It is unfortunate that you have chosen to venture outside of your mandate as Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence, to comment on matters which are apparently, from your comments, beyond your area of expertise and understanding. It is irresponsible of you to suggest, without any regard for the body of scientific knowledge concerning these devices, nor any understanding of police training and procedures related to same, that a moratorium should be imposed on the use of CEDs.
We consider this to be an unwarranted and misinformed intrusion into legitimate health and safety concerns of Canada’s front line police personnel. Those incidents which have given rise to recent public attention are the subject of multiple layers of investigation and oversight, and the public can be assured that the interests of all Canadians will be accounted for in these processes.
Furthermore, the officers involved in these incidents have the right, in our democracy, to the presumption of innocence pending the outcome of these inquiries. Your commentary only serves to undermine this presumption.
We would respectfully encourage you to focus your efforts and attention on the important questions related to the adequacy of the security measures related to our borders, which certainly appear to be less than satisfactory at present.
Sincerely,
Tony Cannavino
President
c.c.: National Press Gallery
For what it's worth, anyhoo.
http://www.oppa.on.ca/images/homepage/Senator%20Kenny%20November%2028-letterhead.pdf
November 28, 2007
The Honourable Colin Kenny, Senator
Senate of Canada
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0A4
Fax (613) 996-3737
Email kennyco@sen.parl.gc.ca
Dear Senator Kenny:
We are writing on behalf of the 57,000 members of the Canadian Police Association, to voice our extreme displeasure and disappointment over your recent public commentary concerning Conducted Energy Devices (CED).
It is unfortunate that you have chosen to venture outside of your mandate as Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence, to comment on matters which are apparently, from your comments, beyond your area of expertise and understanding. It is irresponsible of you to suggest, without any regard for the body of scientific knowledge concerning these devices, nor any understanding of police training and procedures related to same, that a moratorium should be imposed on the use of CEDs.
We consider this to be an unwarranted and misinformed intrusion into legitimate health and safety concerns of Canada’s front line police personnel. Those incidents which have given rise to recent public attention are the subject of multiple layers of investigation and oversight, and the public can be assured that the interests of all Canadians will be accounted for in these processes.
Furthermore, the officers involved in these incidents have the right, in our democracy, to the presumption of innocence pending the outcome of these inquiries. Your commentary only serves to undermine this presumption.
We would respectfully encourage you to focus your efforts and attention on the important questions related to the adequacy of the security measures related to our borders, which certainly appear to be less than satisfactory at present.
Sincerely,
Tony Cannavino
President
c.c.: National Press Gallery
For what it's worth, anyhoo.
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zipperhead_cop said:
The most rational comment Ive read on this thread so far...
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If that isn't a "Stay in your lane" letter I don't know what is.
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This looks fairly reasonable to me.
RCMP should restrict taser use immediately: report
BRODIE FENLON
Globe and Mail Update
December 12, 2007 at 1:09 PM EST
The RCMP should immediately restrict the use of tasers to only the most serious encounters with people who are combative or pose a risk of “death or grievous bodily harm,” the head of the force's public complaints commission says.
The recommendation is among 10 made by commission chairman Paul Kennedy in an interim report released Wednesday.
However, there is no call for a moratorium or outright ban on tasers, which is sure to please RCMP Commissioner William Elliott, who said on Tuesday that such a ban would “compromise both officer and public safety.”
Mr. Kennedy was asked to advise on the use of the electric stun gun after the death of Polish citizen Robert Dziekanski at the Vancouver airport on Oct. 14.
Among his recommendations:
• reclassify the taser as an “impact weapon” rather than an “intermediate” device such as pepper spray, which changes how officers use it according to the RCMP's use of force model. In other words, the taser should only be used in situations where a person is being “combative” or poses a risk of “death or grievous bodily harm” to the officer, themselves or the general public.
• change the RCMP's taser training program to reflect its status as an impact weapon
• require recertification in taser use every two years
• require and enforce stricter reporting requirements every time a taser is used
“The most powerful asset in a police officer's arsenal is public support. Anything that erodes that support reduces the ability of officers to successfully perform their duties on behalf of the public,” Mr. Kennedy said in a release.
Liberal public safety critic Ujjal Dosanjh said he welcomes the proposed restriction, which he said “goes a long way to deal with the issues that might be dealt with by a moratorium.”
“So I am satisfied, but I believe all of the recommendations need to be embraced by the RCMP,” Mr. Dosanjh told CBC News.
NDP Leader Jack Layton, who has called for a moratorium, has expressed skepticism that a moratorium on tasers would endanger the safety of the public or officers.
“Before the invention of tasers, police officers had certain approaches that they used. We feel that while we figure out what's really going on with tasers and taser use here in Canada, that a moratorium makes sense,” he said.
But Commissioner Elliott said that barring the use of tasers might force officers to use guns, batons, or other methods to apprehend people in some cases. “If that tool is not available, that, in and of itself, could result in a situation where the individual being apprehended, or the officer, might well be injured,” he said.
Separate reviews into Mr. Dziekanski's death are being conducted by the Canada Border Services Agency, the B.C. coroner and the Vancouver Airport Authority, as well as a public inquiry that has been promised by the B.C. government.
Mr. Kennedy's report is just one of several examinations of the RCMP expected this week. A task force on restructuring the force, headed by lawyer David Brown, is expected to report Friday.
With reports from Campbell Clark
RCMP should restrict taser use immediately: report
BRODIE FENLON
Globe and Mail Update
December 12, 2007 at 1:09 PM EST
The RCMP should immediately restrict the use of tasers to only the most serious encounters with people who are combative or pose a risk of “death or grievous bodily harm,” the head of the force's public complaints commission says.
The recommendation is among 10 made by commission chairman Paul Kennedy in an interim report released Wednesday.
However, there is no call for a moratorium or outright ban on tasers, which is sure to please RCMP Commissioner William Elliott, who said on Tuesday that such a ban would “compromise both officer and public safety.”
Mr. Kennedy was asked to advise on the use of the electric stun gun after the death of Polish citizen Robert Dziekanski at the Vancouver airport on Oct. 14.
Among his recommendations:
• reclassify the taser as an “impact weapon” rather than an “intermediate” device such as pepper spray, which changes how officers use it according to the RCMP's use of force model. In other words, the taser should only be used in situations where a person is being “combative” or poses a risk of “death or grievous bodily harm” to the officer, themselves or the general public.
• change the RCMP's taser training program to reflect its status as an impact weapon
• require recertification in taser use every two years
• require and enforce stricter reporting requirements every time a taser is used
“The most powerful asset in a police officer's arsenal is public support. Anything that erodes that support reduces the ability of officers to successfully perform their duties on behalf of the public,” Mr. Kennedy said in a release.
Liberal public safety critic Ujjal Dosanjh said he welcomes the proposed restriction, which he said “goes a long way to deal with the issues that might be dealt with by a moratorium.”
“So I am satisfied, but I believe all of the recommendations need to be embraced by the RCMP,” Mr. Dosanjh told CBC News.
NDP Leader Jack Layton, who has called for a moratorium, has expressed skepticism that a moratorium on tasers would endanger the safety of the public or officers.
“Before the invention of tasers, police officers had certain approaches that they used. We feel that while we figure out what's really going on with tasers and taser use here in Canada, that a moratorium makes sense,” he said.
But Commissioner Elliott said that barring the use of tasers might force officers to use guns, batons, or other methods to apprehend people in some cases. “If that tool is not available, that, in and of itself, could result in a situation where the individual being apprehended, or the officer, might well be injured,” he said.
Separate reviews into Mr. Dziekanski's death are being conducted by the Canada Border Services Agency, the B.C. coroner and the Vancouver Airport Authority, as well as a public inquiry that has been promised by the B.C. government.
Mr. Kennedy's report is just one of several examinations of the RCMP expected this week. A task force on restructuring the force, headed by lawyer David Brown, is expected to report Friday.
With reports from Campbell Clark
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Bunch of clods that don't know what they are talking about. Tasers don't cause injuries. You can't put them at the same level as a baton.
But it's a big "whatever". It's a minor point of articulation in a report. Much time wasting.
And don't forget, Dziekanski was demonstrating assaultive behavior, so he would have gotten tased in any case.
As for this tripe:
How about shut up until YOU figure out how they work? But since when did knowing what he was talking about stop Ojacka Bin Layton from chiming off in public? But once again, he shows that it is his feeling that police safety should take a back seat to knee jerk uninformed reactionism. Or just further pandering to his strange universe of constituents.
But it's a big "whatever". It's a minor point of articulation in a report. Much time wasting.
And don't forget, Dziekanski was demonstrating assaultive behavior, so he would have gotten tased in any case.
As for this tripe:
IN HOC SIGNO said:
How about shut up until YOU figure out how they work? But since when did knowing what he was talking about stop Ojacka Bin Layton from chiming off in public? But once again, he shows that it is his feeling that police safety should take a back seat to knee jerk uninformed reactionism. Or just further pandering to his strange universe of constituents.
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IN HOC SIGNO said:
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It is my belief that taser's are still a valuable tool for the LEO's, based upon my last medical training (although the PA's could provide better information) I think that they should be considered as a usage prior to deadly force. Reasoning is that the heart is controlled by electrical impulses, and the usage of the taser could possibly disrupt the signals the body provides. As my last medical training stated once starting CPR you carry on until de-fibrillation restarts the heart or the person is declared deceased.
(Course run this past summer)....
(Course run this past summer)....
QV
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 2,479
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I have been tasered in training along with thousands of other police officers over the years and I am still alive. It is very clear that there are always other circumstances (drugs, weak heart) at play when someone dies in custody after a taser or other UOF option was deployed. It sucks but IMHO that is the risk you take when you want to fight with the police.
This same crap happened when OC first came out and the storm eventually subsided. This shit storm will eventually blow over like everthing else. No use getting all worked up about it, as matter of fact we should be used to this chicken shit in our society by now.
This same crap happened when OC first came out and the storm eventually subsided. This shit storm will eventually blow over like everthing else. No use getting all worked up about it, as matter of fact we should be used to this chicken shit in our society by now.
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QV said:
Agreed, but the taste of BS still isn't a pleasant one, and it is still hard to swallow.
Rodahn said:
I don't know why this concept is so hard for people. THE TASER DOESN'T DAMAGE TISSUE OR CAUSE INJURIES! Yes, it is a stressful event, but so is getting dropped on your ass and bent into a pretzel.
The issue of initiating fibrillation is something that was extensively looked at in the development of the taser, and in cases where a death has occurred it has not been found to be the cause.
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My bad.
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The fact is if you do as the officer tells you,then you won,t get tasered ,shot or some other unpleasant experience,We as a society ask these people to deal with people and situations that we don,t know how or don,t want to deal with.Often this requires split second decisions that we can pick apart for months.Unfortunately at times accidents happen in situations that the police didn,t create.Like our military We train and equip these fine people and I think that it,s about time that we stand behind them instead of being another obstacle in front of them.
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Shared with usual disclaimers.
The Chronicle Herald Published: 2007-12-14
RCMP to curb Taser use
Critical report urges policy change
By STEPHEN THORNE The Canadian Press
OTTAWA — The RCMP will restrict its use of Tasers, just days after a critical report said the national police force was firing the stun guns too often.
The Mounties say they will more clearly define use-of-force terminology and limit Taser use to situations where ``a subject is displaying combative behaviours or is being actively resistant.''
RCMP bosses have issued an operational bulletin outlining the policy changes and will include them in future Taser training.
The announcement came Friday, two days after the RCMP complaints commissioner issued recommendations to drastically curb the Mounties' increasing reliance on the electronic stun guns.
Paul Kennedy's 53-page report said the 50,000-volt Tasers should only be used when suspects are ``combative'' or pose a risk of ``death or grievous bodily harm.''
``The RCMP recognizes the need to take action on the issues raised in the report and is committed to making immediate improvements in a number of areas,'' RCMP Commissioner William Elliott said in a statement.
Kennedy's report was commissioned amid an international furor surrounding the case of Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski, who died Oct. 14 after he was repeatedly Tasered and pinned to the floor by RCMP officers at Vancouver International Airport.
Taser use ``has expanded to include subduing resistant subjects who do not pose a threat of grievous bodily harm or death and on whom the use of lethal force would not be an option,'' Kennedy said in an interim report released Wednesday.
He said Taser restrictions should apply in cases of so-called ``excited delirium,'' in which suspects are in a heart-pounding state of agitation. Excited delirium has been repeatedly blamed for sudden deaths after Tasers were used.
Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day asked Kennedy last month to look at how RCMP use the electronic guns, which can be fired from a distance of several metres or applied at close range.
The document stopped short of calling for a moratorium on the widely used stun guns. Kennedy, whose full report is due next summer, said Tasers should be considered an ``impact weapon'' rather than an intermediate tool such as pepper spray or a baton.
Until now, the six-level police force protocol began with officer presence and built in intensity to: verbal commands; empty-hand control techniques; use of pepper spray, batons or Tasers; less-lethal force such as weapons that fire bean bags or rubber bullets; and finally deadly force.
Mounties have fired the electronic guns over 3,000 times since their introduction in December 2001. Yet Kennedy found no annual report has been produced, nor has the police force thoroughly examined its statistical information on Taser use in developing policy.
In keeping with Kennedy's recommendations, the Mounties will enhance their Taser data base, establish more robust reporting and analysis, and file quarterly and annual reports on all use-of-force incidents, including those involving Tasers.
Elliott said preliminary reviews had suggested training and policy were adequate. But that apparently changed in light of Kennedy's report.
``We will also establish a position in our national headquarters to better co-ordinate these critical aspects of our use-of-force policy framework to ensure accountability at all levels,'' said the commissioner's statement.
``The RCMP recognizes the importance of research in the development of use-of-force policies and the assessment of models, tools and techniques.''
The force will continue working with medical experts and police organizations ``to examine medical, legal, and social aspects of use-of-force issues, including (Tasers), and their impact on persons suffering from excited delirium syndrome.''
Some 2,800 Tasers are being used by more than 9,100 RCMP members across the country.
Dziekanski is recorded as the 18th person in Canada to die in recent years after being hit by a Taser.
Taser International, makers of the device, stress that the weapons have never been directly blamed for a death.
The Chronicle Herald Published: 2007-12-14
RCMP to curb Taser use
Critical report urges policy change
By STEPHEN THORNE The Canadian Press
OTTAWA — The RCMP will restrict its use of Tasers, just days after a critical report said the national police force was firing the stun guns too often.
The Mounties say they will more clearly define use-of-force terminology and limit Taser use to situations where ``a subject is displaying combative behaviours or is being actively resistant.''
RCMP bosses have issued an operational bulletin outlining the policy changes and will include them in future Taser training.
The announcement came Friday, two days after the RCMP complaints commissioner issued recommendations to drastically curb the Mounties' increasing reliance on the electronic stun guns.
Paul Kennedy's 53-page report said the 50,000-volt Tasers should only be used when suspects are ``combative'' or pose a risk of ``death or grievous bodily harm.''
``The RCMP recognizes the need to take action on the issues raised in the report and is committed to making immediate improvements in a number of areas,'' RCMP Commissioner William Elliott said in a statement.
Kennedy's report was commissioned amid an international furor surrounding the case of Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski, who died Oct. 14 after he was repeatedly Tasered and pinned to the floor by RCMP officers at Vancouver International Airport.
Taser use ``has expanded to include subduing resistant subjects who do not pose a threat of grievous bodily harm or death and on whom the use of lethal force would not be an option,'' Kennedy said in an interim report released Wednesday.
He said Taser restrictions should apply in cases of so-called ``excited delirium,'' in which suspects are in a heart-pounding state of agitation. Excited delirium has been repeatedly blamed for sudden deaths after Tasers were used.
Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day asked Kennedy last month to look at how RCMP use the electronic guns, which can be fired from a distance of several metres or applied at close range.
The document stopped short of calling for a moratorium on the widely used stun guns. Kennedy, whose full report is due next summer, said Tasers should be considered an ``impact weapon'' rather than an intermediate tool such as pepper spray or a baton.
Until now, the six-level police force protocol began with officer presence and built in intensity to: verbal commands; empty-hand control techniques; use of pepper spray, batons or Tasers; less-lethal force such as weapons that fire bean bags or rubber bullets; and finally deadly force.
Mounties have fired the electronic guns over 3,000 times since their introduction in December 2001. Yet Kennedy found no annual report has been produced, nor has the police force thoroughly examined its statistical information on Taser use in developing policy.
In keeping with Kennedy's recommendations, the Mounties will enhance their Taser data base, establish more robust reporting and analysis, and file quarterly and annual reports on all use-of-force incidents, including those involving Tasers.
Elliott said preliminary reviews had suggested training and policy were adequate. But that apparently changed in light of Kennedy's report.
``We will also establish a position in our national headquarters to better co-ordinate these critical aspects of our use-of-force policy framework to ensure accountability at all levels,'' said the commissioner's statement.
``The RCMP recognizes the importance of research in the development of use-of-force policies and the assessment of models, tools and techniques.''
The force will continue working with medical experts and police organizations ``to examine medical, legal, and social aspects of use-of-force issues, including (Tasers), and their impact on persons suffering from excited delirium syndrome.''
Some 2,800 Tasers are being used by more than 9,100 RCMP members across the country.
Dziekanski is recorded as the 18th person in Canada to die in recent years after being hit by a Taser.
Taser International, makers of the device, stress that the weapons have never been directly blamed for a death.
- Reaction score
- 4,853
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Yup, and the next punk that ends up with a cracked skull and busted bones will be suing & complaining that they should have tazed him instead of using their batons.
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Excellent! They hold a big news conference and feed the sheep a dressed up version of "we're still going to use them the same way we were before". For once the media having no clue as to what it's reporting works for the good guys.
In 2005 2,923 people in Canada died in motor vehicle incidents. 43,443 in the United States! I guess a moritorium on cars and trucks should be issued, because what is more important; going places or saving lives?
Stats
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"18th person in Canada to die in recent years".
I'd be interested to know how many times a TASER was deployed in those same years. In other words - do those 18 deaths represent 1 in 10 TASER incidents? 1 in 1000? 1 in 1,000,000?
I'm willing to do the research, and report back here - but I have no idea where to find this information. Anybody got any ideas regarding where to start?
Roy
I'd be interested to know how many times a TASER was deployed in those same years. In other words - do those 18 deaths represent 1 in 10 TASER incidents? 1 in 1000? 1 in 1,000,000?
I'm willing to do the research, and report back here - but I have no idea where to find this information. Anybody got any ideas regarding where to start?
Roy
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That sort of use-of-force info is generally kept by the training branches of the various Departments. I don't think it is public info, although maybe you could dig it up for the RCMP, since they are federal. I am also of the belief that there is a national use of force symposium (meeting? conference?) every year or so where these sort of issues are bandied about. As for whether or not it is published is anyones guess.
I know around our parts they get used all the time, and there isn't anything too sexy to report about them.
I know around our parts they get used all the time, and there isn't anything too sexy to report about them.
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