TF Cdr Reports Self for Possible Accidental Discharge

[Gunner98]

This from a journalist, "Mendard fires a shot head 'round the world" - shouldn't that be Ménard and heard

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This from a journalist, "Mendard fires a shot head 'round the world" - shouldn't that be Ménard and heard

Perhaps his fingers turn to sausages when he's in a hurry to slander a Canadian with his sensationalistic "News of the World' brand of pulp fiction.

 

[The Bread Guy]

This from a journalist, "Mendard fires a shot head 'round the world" - shouldn't that be Ménard and heard

You flatter him, my friend (or you're an optimist)...

 

[The Bread Guy]

This, from the CF:

The Canadian Forces National Investigation Service (CFNIS), the investigative arm of the Canadian Forces Military Police, has charged Brigadier-General Daniel Menard in relation to an incident on March 25, 2010, when his personal weapon discharged.

Brig.-Gen. Menard, Commander Joint Task Force Afghanistan, was charged with one count of Conduct to the Prejudice of Good Order and Discipline contrary to section 129 of the National Defence Act.

The CFNIS is an independent Military Police unit with a mandate to investigate serious and sensitive matters in relation to National Defence property, DND employees, and CF personnel serving in Canada and abroad.

- 30 -

For more information about the CFNIS, please go to http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/view-news-afficher-nouvelles-eng.asp?id=2824

For more information about the CFNIS Investigation Process, please go to http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/view-news-afficher-nouvelles-eng.asp?id=2960

 

[SeanNewman]

Have you looked at your commissioning scroll lately? Your Pl WO was not your "buddy".

Thank you for preaching to me.  I am happy to know that you didn't make any mistakes as a young Lt like I did.

The difference between you and I Sir, is that I can admit that I have made mistakes and learned from them. 

You, however, are obviously infallible, and I respect you for that.  Or you have made mistakes and didn't realize it.

Either way, thank god that you were here on this message board to remind me that I did something wrong when the whole reason I posted it in the first place was to confess that I did something wrong.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Thank you for preaching to me.  I am happy to know that you didn't make any mistakes at a young Lt like I did.

The difference between you and I Sir, is that I can admit that I have made mistakes and learned from them. 

You, however, are obviously infallible, and I respect you for that.  Or you have made mistakes and didn't realize it.

Either way, thank god that you were here on this message board to remind me that I did something wrong when the whole reason I posted it in the first place was to confess that I did something wrong.

Don't take it personally, from what I have noticed criticism around here roles off ones tongue ehm I mean keyboard much easier when sitting behind a computer, like you said atleast you have the guts to admit that you did something wrong, and take it in stride.

 

[Gunner98]

Thank you for preaching to me.  I am happy to know that you didn't make any mistakes as a young Lt like I did.

The difference between you and I Sir, is that I can admit that I have made mistakes and learned from them. 

You, however, are obviously infallible, and I respect you for that.  Or you have made mistakes and didn't realize it.

Either way, thank god that you were here on this message board to remind me that I did something wrong when the whole reason I posted it in the first place was to confess that I did something wrong.

Don't mistake my intent and thanks for not answering the questions for us to learn more about the lessons you are sharing.

I have made mistakes in my 26 years in uniform.  However, I don't choose to brag about them, in a thread about a TF Commander, as an example of my integrity for all to see on this site.  It seems I keep making more mistakes by even trying to post anything in a thread in which you have expressed an opinion.  I guess I will have to keep riding around on my high horse and just keep my mouth shut. Tata, carry-on.

 

[SeanNewman]

...However, I don't choose to brag about them, in a thread about a TF Commander...

There may be a misunderstanding if you see it as bragging.  I am not exactly sure how you could come to the conclusion that I was bragging about something that I admit was my biggest lapse in judgement so far in uniform.  As I mentioned though, I learned from it, and I am more than willing to admit that two-months into the job as a platoon commander I was on a fairly steep learning curve.

I bring it up only as a demonstration that I am well aware of all sorts of people in the CF who have had NDs and not had the integrity to bring themselves up on charges, not as any sort of personal crusade.

 

[Gunner98]

 
I bring it up only as a demonstration that I am well aware of all sorts of people in the CF who have had NDs and not had the integrity to bring themselves up on charges, not as any sort of personal crusade.

I ask you to please help me try to understand the lessons you have presented in this thread thus far. 

You are saying that the WO (who had more than two months of troop leadership experience, and was not caught on video) should have manned up and reported himself.  Therefore, the first lesson you are offering is that he showed a major failure in leadership and integrity, which is very unlike the BGen.

Second lesson, you as newly trained Lt had a ND which was a failure in conduct and weapons discipline.  There are all sorts of other people who have them but do not charge themselves.  This is dissimilar to a BGen with more than 2 months command experience having a ND.

Third lesson, you knew the WO had a ND and you did not report him.  You showed questionable integrity by protecting him.  You "admit (this) was my biggest lapse in judgement (sic) so far in uniform."

Fourth lesson, because it was caught on video, you had no choice but to man up, therefore, the troops should see you as having integrity and after a short period of chuckling and reflection they should respect you.  The BGen reported himself to the NIS.  The NIS conducted an investigation and have charged him with NDA 129.  This makes you and the BGen comparable because you were both commanding troops?

Fifth lesson, you went before a summary trial and did not offer any mitigating evidence about any other NDs.  You showed questionable integrity by continuing to protecting the WO and should be respected because you took one for team, like the BGen.

Sixth lesson, because you were charged as an officer, the Presiding Officer made an example of you and you received a substantial fine, 5 x what a soldier would get.  So the BGen, who is an officer with more than 2 months of command experience, should get at least the same fine you got (or maybe 5 x the fine you got).

Seventh lesson, “every soldier needs to be in control of his rifle, but his integrity means even more.  TFK Comd's integrity points will go up more than his fieldcraft stock will go down.”

Eighth lesson, “And at the end of the day, nobody is infallible in terms of mistakes. However, there is a difference between making a mistake and doing wrong.  To lie about it would have been to do wrong, and would not have been recoverable from.”

Ninth lesson, this BGen in a Multinational Command role has IYHO showed good judgment.

As well could you please explain these:

IYHO was your ND considered "making a mistake"? 
Did the Presiding Officer have the same opinion? 
IYHO, is a big "lapse in judgment" - a mistake or doing wrong? 
Is/was the "biggest lapse in judgment" recoverable from? 
How does any of this compare to the BGen's current situation?

Thanks for helping me to understand your contributions to this thread.

(IYHO - In your humble opinion)

 

[SeanNewman]

I ask you to please help me try to understand the lessons you have presented in this thread thus far. 

No.  As per above:

Thank you for preaching to me.

 

[TimBit]

Alright, major hijack and personal back-and-forth quarrel.

Someone lock this one up?

 

[GAP]

:rofl:

 

[Danjanou]

Ok boys and girls and take everything else to PMs.

Staff

 

[SeanNewman]

We have already self-policed and it was taken there hours ago.

I apologize to others who may have been upset by seeing two strong-willed people have a stare down.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Regardless, here's a good example of proper load/unloading bay drills, which hundreds of Canadians no doubt perform successfully on a daily basis:

2:50 into this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZl3kitXp7w&feature=related

 

[The Bread Guy]

CF media advisory:

Standing Court Martial proceedings will take place on May 25, 2010, at the Asticou Centre in Gatineau, Québec, for Brigadier-General Daniel Menard, Commander Joint Task Force Afghanistan, in relation to an incident on March 25, 2010, when his personal weapon discharged.

Brig.-Gen. Menard is charged with one count of Neglect to the Prejudice of Good Order and Discipline contrary to section 129 of the National Defence Act.

(....)

As the matter is before a service tribunal it would be inappropriate to comment further about the circumstances surrounding this case at this time.  Please note, however, that the hearing is open to the media and the public, and will take place at 9:30 a.m. at the following location:

Asticou Centre
Room 2601 (courtroom), Block 2600
241, de la Cité-des-Jeunes Boulevard
Gatineau, Québec ....

Charge sheet attached.

 

[Rheostatic]

I'm wondering, does he need to be present at the proceedings?

 

[SeanNewman]

Ahhh, the good'ole "129" memories.

It would be interesting to see how many people on this board have one of those on their pers file.

 

[HItorMiss]

Sure do....

 

[xena]

Didn't Chesty Puller do the same thing to himself once?  (Now THERE's a phrase that can be taken out of context...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesty_Puller#Chesty_Puller_in_Marine_Corps_culture