TF Cdr Reports Self for Possible Accidental Discharge

[Pusser]

Has BGen Menard finished his tour in Afghanistan?  If not, surely they didn't have to come all the way back to Canada to do this?

 

[mariomike]

Has BGen Menard finished his tour in Afghanistan?  If not, surely they didn't have to come all the way back to Canada to do this?

May 21, 2010:
"Menard, as the leader of Task Force Kandahar, now has command of several thousand U.S. troops in Kandahar City and in districts abutting the provincial capital and an approximately equal number of Canadians in the city and in Panjwaii, to the west.":
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Upcoming+battle+Afghanistan/3060586/story.html

May 13, 2010:
"The case is to heard by a military court in Gatineau, Que., on May 25.":
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/general+could+testify+Menard+court+martial/3024069/story.html

 

[Bin-Rat]

Seen this listed on the London Free Press, If in wrong place or posted elsewhere, please move and or delete, Thank you.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/canada/2010/05/25/14080551.html

"Canada's top soldier in Afghanistan will face a court martial on Tuesday after his rifle went off unexpectedly at Kandahar Airfield.

Brig.-Gen. Daniel Menard is charged with one count of "neglect to the prejudice of good order and discipline" under the National Defence Act. The charge is related to his personal weapon discharging in March. No one was injured.

The Department of National Defence declined to comment further on the circumstances surrounding the shot because "the matter is before a service tribunal."

Menard's standing court martial proceedings will be held in Gatineau, Que.

The penalty for a conviction is usually a fine. Military officials have said the charge is a common one and unintentional discharges are rarely investigated.

"But because of his rank, they wanted to see it through," military spokeswoman Maj. Paule Poulin told QMI Agency.

Menard has served as the commander of Joint Task Force Afghanistan since November, overseeing Canadian and other Western forces in the war-torn country."

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Last updated at 3:16 PM on 25/05/10 

Top general in Afghanistan found guilty in court martial for inadvertent shot 
The Canadian Press — GATINEAU, Que.


Canada’s top soldier in Kandahar has been fined $3,500 for negligently firing two rounds with his assault rifle as his boss the chief of defence staff stood nearby.
A court martial handed down the fine Tuesday after finding Brig.-Gen. Daniel Menard guilty of an offence under the National Defence Act.
It’s the stiffest fine handed down to a soldier for mishandling a weapon. Menard, who presides over similar cases in Afghanistan, said the most he has ever fined someone is $1,200.
In delivering the sentence, military judge Col. Mario Dutil said “this case sends a clear message” that the Canadian Forces takes weapons offences seriously.
The March 25 incident occurred as Menard and Gen. Walt Natynczyk, the chief of defence staff, were about to board a Blackhawk helicopter at Kandahar Airfield.
Menard, commander of Task Force Kandahar, struggled to load a magazine into his C8 assault rifle and put the safety on. His gun was at waist level, pointing at the runway, when it fired a two-round burst.
The bullets whizzed between two armoured vehicles, missing two Blackhawk helicopters and about 10 soldiers also within range. No one was hurt and no property was damaged.
Menard handed the weapon to his driver and ordered him to have it looked at. Then he and Natynczyk boarded the helicopter and left the base.
The next day Menard reported the incident to the Task Force provost marshall. When an investigation found no problem with Menard’s weapon, he assembled about 300 troops to tell them about the incident.
“He mans up right away,” defence lawyer Lt.-Col. Troy Sweet told the court martial. “He says, ’Yes, it’s me. I did it.”’
Menard said he talked to the troops to put any rumours to rest.
“The last thing that I wanted was for rumours to go around,” Menard told reporters outside the court room.
“So I said ’I’ll kill that immediately.”’
Menard pleaded guilty at the start of Tuesday’s court martial to one count of “neglect to the prejudice of good order and discipline” under the National Defence Act.
“I did accept, right from Day 1, full responsibility of my actions. And now it’s something that is behind us,” he said.
“I’m certainly very eager to go back to my troops.”
Menard, who took over as commander of Task Force Kandahar last November, has until Aug. 1 to pay the fine.
He is only the second general to be court martialled. The first was in 2001 over the misuse of a Defence Department computer.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

$1750 x 2 rounds = $3500.

$1750.00 a round is in line with other fines given his rank and station.

However, I am getting tired of how they keep saying he "manned up" and took full responsibility. Most other soldiers, including Privates, do the same thing, especially when they do it in front of the boss, and in a sensative area.

You fuck up, you take your lumps. It's over. Time to move on and get back to work.

 

[observor 69]

Ya "manned up" after accidentally firing two rounds in front of the CDS and a flight line full of personnel.

Why to go !

Mind you Gen Menard didn't say that, his defence lawyer did.

 

[SeanNewman]

You see the "manning up" thing as what you notice.

I would be willing to bet that most troops read that and the biggest thing they think about is "He got on a helo to go into action without a rifle???".

 

[Infanteer]

I would be willing to bet that most troops read that and the biggest thing they think about is "He got on a helo to go into action without a rifle???".

Flying with the CDS to a large FOB constitutes "going into action"?

 

[HItorMiss]

If the Helo goes down?

Ok ok I know no one would be on the ground long ...but you know

 

[Fishbone Jones]

You see the "manning up" thing as what you notice.

I would be willing to bet that most troops read that and the biggest thing they think about is "He got on a helo to go into action without a rifle???".

No, it's just what I've been hearing and seeing all day. No great deep thought processes at work. I don't try overanalyse simple news articles.

And I certainly don't presume to speak for 'most' when I clearly don't. You should try it sometime.

Oh, I get it! You're calling me a useless REMF for not being able to pull the SA from the Canadian Press. Yup, guess those days of swinging in my hammock have got the best of me. I don't have to prove my bona fides to you. Fortunately, there are real professionals around here that I can consult if need be, so don't wait by your mail order bat phone expecting a call there Junior.

 

[SeanNewman]

I don't have to prove my bona fides to you...

I genuinely do not understand why you bring so much negativity to this message board.

While I may disagree with people occasionally, it is usually under a tone that they have the right to their opinion and I try to be civil about it.

You however, are just a mean person who seldom adds anything to a thread other than to tell someone how wrong they are, how stupid they are, how bad government is, or some other reason that someone had the audacity to write a post that bothered you.

People are supposed to relax and chill out when they age. 

 

[Gunner98]

You see the "manning up" thing as what you notice.

I would be willing to bet that most troops read that and the biggest thing they think about is "He got on a helo to go into action without a rifle???".

I disagree Petamocto, you paint with a very broad brush on behalf of "most" soldiers.  I think at least some troops would read it and say, "Two round burst - from waist level - pointing at the runway, Holy Crapola - a safe direction is not pointing your rifle at two friendly armoured vehicles and 10 of your own soldiers."

I would only be concerned if he and the CDS went to a FOB without their personal security escorts and not minus one rifle.

 

[MARS]

Nothing to do with the ongoign discussion, but have you seen the (file?) photo from CANWEST?  WTF is up with his capbadge being above his f*****g sideburns?  is that an army thing, infantry thing or GO thing?

 

[vonGarvin]

Nothing to do with the ongoign discussion, but have you seen the (file?) photo from CANWEST?  WTF is up with his capbadge being above his f*****g sideburns?  is that an army thing, infantry thing or GO thing?

None of the above.  It's a NOthing.  I think it's been brought up before on here.

 

[armyvern]

None of the above.  It's a NOthing.  I think it's been brought up before on here.

Tell the truth; MARS just needs to narrow his grouping down a wee bit further.  8)

 

[SeanNewman]

I disagree Petamocto, you paint with a very broad brush on behalf of "most" soldiers.  I think at least some troops would read it and say, "Two round burst - from waist level - pointing at the runway, Holy Crapola - a safe direction is not pointing your rifle at two friendly armoured vehicles and 10 of your own soldiers."

You are correct, and yes I didn't exactly word it the best.  I could have written "most I know" or "a lot of soldiers".

Agreed with the two-rounds as well.  The article says "burst", but it would be interresting to know if it was a burst or double tap.  Hard to say what they mechanics may have been.  I can see a mistake being made of flipping it the wrong way to auto instead of safe, but why the trigger was pulled with a mag on...one can only speculate.

But at least he owned up to it! 

 

[Danjanou]

Ok after 6 pages I think we're pretty close to done here. Incident reported dealt with, fine issued, media take, et cetera et cetera.
Also starting to go off the rails into another Springer like flame war. Not locking it yet as there may stll be some useful on topic debate still to come.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Nothing to do with the ongoign discussion, but have you seen the (file?) photo from CANWEST?  WTF is up with his capbadge being above his f*****g sideburns?  is that an army thing, infantry thing or GO thing?

It's been discussed before, but it's a bit of a thing with some soldiers, especially those from one particular brigade. Wearing the cap badge on the side of the beret is customary in some countries - notably France, but they wear theirs on the right side of the head, not on the left as is the case in Canada, the UK, USA and so on.

But it is not unique to France, see this, for example:

A German army aviation unit

and this

A Finnish general officer in his UN baby-blue beret

It's a venal rather than a mortal sin, not on the same scale as accidentally discharging one's weapon.

 

[dapaterson]

However, like certain other venal sins, it's covered off in a bible, in this case the CF Dress manual. 

A-AD-265-000/AG-001, Canadian Forces Dress Instructions, is issued on authority of the Chief of Defence Staff.

c. Beret. The beret shall be worn evenly on the head, with the sweatband 2.5 cm (1 in.) above the eyebrows, the badge centred over the left eye, and the crown pulled downward to the right. The break of the sweatband shall be worn centred at the back of the head, with no draw string visible.

Thus, in wearing his beret in that manner, he is disobeying an order issued by the CDS.

 

[Edward Campbell]

You know, we used to tolerate "regimental quiffs*" with a good humoured shrug. Of course that was back in the day when we had more than twice as many sailors, soldiers and air force members and slightly fewer admiral and generals; perhaps that ratio explains why they didn't sweat the small stuff.


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*Careful when you google that word; here is the correct meaning.