The Canadian Peacekeeping Myth (Merged Topics)

[Good2Golf]

People happy yet?

No. 

Getting there, and the MND's words are certainly welcome.  I like Minister Sajjan and feel he is coming into his own as a Strat-Pol fellow well-informed by knowledgable, tactical service.  Good on him.

Now, two things need to happen:

1) The Government doesn't cut the MND off at the knees and dilute Canada's position; and

2) Canada doesn't ease off the UN and accept less than Ministet Sajjan is messaging.

Then, and only them will those of us who currently doubt, or at least are highly suspect, will be happy.

:2c:

Regards
G2G

 

[medicineman]

People happy yet?

No - there is no mission yet, and as such, no ROE to go with it.  As mentioned, what the Minister says vs what the Prime Minister says will always be trumped by the PM, who may well not give a flying, Ebola infected monkey's arse about the ROE if it interferes with getting celestial camouflaged hats on the ground.

MM

 

[Altair]

No. 

Getting there, and the MND's words are certainly welcome.  I like Minister Sajjan and feel he is coming into his own as a Strat-Pol fellow well-informed by knowledgable, tactical service.  Good on him.

Now, two things need to happen:

1) The Government doesn't cut the MND off at the knees and dilute Canada's position; and

2) Canada doesn't ease off the UN and accept less than Ministet Sajjan is messaging.

Then, and only them will those of us who currently doubt, or at least are highly suspect, will be happy.

:2c:

Regards
G2G

Of course, we don't know the ROEs yet.

So I guess until they are in our hands we won't know for sure.

But it's hard to deny that all signs point towards much more robust ROEs than the peacekeeping missions that some people keep bringing up from two  decades ago.

 

[The Bread Guy]

But it's hard to deny that all signs point towards much more robust ROEs than the peacekeeping missions that some people keep bringing up from team decades ago.

Agree that "all signs point", but "all signs point" =/= done deal.  And Good2Golf is right about what ELSE can still happen between now and "done deal".

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I thought this might be a good reminder of UN missions past in Africa, good timing on it's release. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_JHsiQTTmg

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Lets see. A mission to Africa, in an area rife with conflicts of a resources/tribal/religious nature that has been raging for generations, with ROE's that let you shoot and a primary purpose of defending civilian population: What can possibly go wrong?

Can anyone say "Afghacyprus" (Yep! I just made that word up).

 

[MARS]

Seems like the ROEs will different from peacekeeping missions past.

Of course, we don't know the ROEs yet.

So which is it?

 

[Altair]

So which is it?

Seems like =/= definitely will be?

Are you done nitpicking now?

If you are we can discuss how every single person in connection with this has been mentioning more robust ROEs.

Or we can continue to talk about how certain phrases in the English language shouldn't be taken as absolutes.

Up to you.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Altair, your lack of skepticism for UN missions is disturbing (cue Darth Vader voice) 

The RN had Rum, Sodomy and the Lash, the UN has Cholera, Corruption and Child prostitution

 

[jollyjacktar]

Altair, your lack of skepticism for UN missions is disturbing (cue Darth Vader voice) 

The RN had Rum, Sodomy and the Lash, the UN has Cholera, Corruption and Child prostitution

Wait until a person gets some TI with the UN.  Then and only then I fear they will develop a healthy case of skepticism.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Lets see. A mission to Africa, in an area rife with conflicts of a resources/tribal/religious nature that has been raging for generations, with ROE's that let you shoot and a primary purpose of defending civilian population: What can possibly go wrong?

Can anyone say "Afghacyprus" (Yep! I just made that word up).

I'm more concerned that the Liberals are warning Canadians that peacekeeping isn't like the old days anymore and war is changing when it's almost literally the same situation as Afghanistan. Did they not realize that before or were they purposely pandering? To be perfectly honest, I hope they were pandering, because with Andrew Leslie on board it would be depressing to think they didn't realize that the nature of war in Africa would be different than Cyprus.

 

[CBH99]

It's almost like when they initially sent us to Afghanistan for 'peace support operations'....hmmmmmmm.... 

 

[jollyjacktar]

I'm more concerned that the Liberals are warning Canadians that peacekeeping isn't like the old days anymore and war is changing when it's almost literally the same situation as Afghanistan. Did they not realize that before or were they purposely pandering? To be perfectly honest, I hope they were pandering, because with Andrew Leslie on board it would be depressing to think they didn't realize that the nature of war in Africa would be different than Cyprus.

Just because they have some resources that know what they are talking about, NND, CDS and Leslie, doesn't mean they'll listen to them.

 

[Altair]

Very true.

But so far everyone is saying the right things and of what I'd being said actually turns out to be the reality of the situation then what's the problem?

Altair, your lack of skepticism for UN missions is disturbing (cue Darth Vader voice) 

The RN had Rum, Sodomy and the Lash, the UN has Cholera, Corruption and Child prostitution

Don't get me wrong, I don't like like the UN. I don't think you'll find anywhere on the site where I've given the UN praise.

I simply trust the CDS, the MND, leslie, and a image conscious LPC who probably don't want to see a repeat of 90s peacekeeping and murdered civilians with Canadian troops forced not to advance until the next day anymore than we do.

(Insert my selfish reasons here)

 

[OldSolduer]

Wait until a person gets some TI with the UN.  Then and only then I fear they will develop a healthy case of skepticism.

This is correct. In Croatia 93 it was a goat rodeo.....

 

[YZT580]

Altair, I truly wish for your optimism to be justified.  If it is, you will be a part of history.  The entire expedition will be written up as the very first time ever that a peace keeping force did it right. I could then say "But" but lets leave it on a positive note

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Just because they have some resources that know what they are talking about, NND, CDS and Leslie, doesn't mean they'll listen to them.

Well, I assume that since the Liberal defence platform read like a plagiarized copy of Leslies Transformation Report and stated it would implement said report, I assume that he had/has some influence.... probably more than the MND.

 

[OldSolduer]

Altair, I truly wish for your optimism to be justified.  If it is, you will be a part of history.  The entire expedition will be written up as the very first time ever that a peace keeping force did it right. I could then say "But" but lets leave it on a positive note

No doubt pre deployment trg would be lengthy

 

[GAP]

No doubt pre deployment trg would be lengthy

Good Lord....it can't possibility be any longer than you guys did for Afghanistan....that was ridiculous.......

 

[jollyjacktar]

Well, I assume that since the Liberal defence platform read like a plagiarized copy of Leslies Transformation Report and stated it would implement said report, I assume that he had/has some influence.... probably more than the MND.

I'm not going to assume a goddamned thing.  Governments of all colours are famous for not listening to good advice and acting on stupid advice on many an occasion.  I am sure that this one in particular will be no different than all those who came before.