The Capital Punishment Debate

[The Bread Guy]

A necro thread revival

https://twitter.com/x/status/2067728324034519284

Interesting polling

Good catch - more details from the polling company here:

Support for Return of Death Penalty Rises Markedly in Canada

More than half of supporters of capital punishment (52%) think it would serve as a deterrent for potential murderers.

researchco.ca

Detailed demo breakdowns attached - methodology:

 

[The Bread Guy]

Since we have a thread chock full of debate already in play just on Canada & capital punishment, carry on here, folks.

Army.ca Staff

 

[mariomike]

I'd be trying to figure out what to order for my Last Meal .

 

[Furniture]

Surely the majority is always right, and we should run ourselves by the will of 50%+1 in all things.

Sometimes they are right. Though maybe starting by keeping the violent offenders away from the reat of the population would be a better start.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Since we have a thread chock full of debate already in play just on Canada & capital punishment, carry on here, folks.

Army.ca Staff

Bah! I should have search capital punishment.

Thanks for the shove in the right direction.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Bah! I should have search capital punishment.

Thanks for the shove in the right direction.

If it’s any comfort, took me a bit of digging too

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'd be trying to figure out what to order for my Last Meal .

Meatloaf in the shape of an ambulance and a side that makes you really gassy would be pretty funny.

 

[mariomike]

The last execution in Canada was in 1962. I wonder how many of the people who say they want it were alive then.

 

[YZT580]

The last execution in Canada was in 1962. I wonder how many of the people who say they want it were alive then.

I was and I am. But if as Pierre said Life means life I could live with the alternative but if I recall correctly that became cruel and unusual because it didn't give the murderer a chance to redeem himself/herself. He was quite specific when it came to the murder of police/corrections officers too.

 

[mariomike]

I think many , myself included, could tolerate something like this,

If we execute murderers and there is in fact no deterrent effect, we have killed a bunch of murderers. If we fail to execute murderers, and doing so would in fact have deterred other murders, we have allowed the killing of a bunch of innocent victims. I would much rather risk the former. This, to me, is not a tough call." John McAdams - Marquette University/Department of Political Science

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I am ok with a limited amount of Capital Punishment, with strict criteria equating to a high bar to be met and a case review after conviction

 

[lenaitch]

Not I. Changes in forensic technology have shown us the fallibility of the justice system. Beyond a reasonable doubt is already a dammed high bar, and we still get it wrong sometimes. The risk to confidence in the State and its institutions, not to mention the people actually involved, when it turns out later that we got it wrong, is irreversible.

We were absolutely convinced, beyond a reasonable doubt, that David Milgaard, Guy Paul Morin and Steven Truscott were guilty - until they weren't.

 

[YZT580]

Not I. Changes in forensic technology have shown us the fallibility of the justice system. Beyond a reasonable doubt is already a dammed high bar, and we still get it wrong sometimes. The risk to confidence in the State and its institutions, not to mention the people actually involved, when it turns out later that we got it wrong, is irreversible.

We were absolutely convinced, beyond a reasonable doubt, that David Milgaard, Guy Paul Morin and Steven Truscott were guilty - until they weren't.

and Paul Bernardo is now in a medium security institution and is continuing his attempts to be released. I wonder if he plays tennis with Russel Williams. If they had been executed, the families wouldn't face the emotional upheaval and if they were locked up permanently the same would apply. No murderer deserves the opportunity to redeem himself and return to society.

 

[brihard]

Not I. Changes in forensic technology have shown us the fallibility of the justice system. Beyond a reasonable doubt is already a dammed high bar, and we still get it wrong sometimes. The risk to confidence in the State and its institutions, not to mention the people actually involved, when it turns out later that we got it wrong, is irreversible.

We were absolutely convinced, beyond a reasonable doubt, that David Milgaard, Guy Paul Morin and Steven Truscott were guilty - until they weren't.

Yup. I have no philosophical objection to capital punishment in a rare few most serious cases. I just don’t trust the system to perfectly never get it wrong. It’s too fallible, there are too many opportunities for bid and emotion to slip into the process and foul things.

The U.S. has most of the same safeguards we do and has wrongly executed people. To me, in the context of the judicial system where someone is already in the custody and control of the state, that’s not an acceptable risk.

 

[lenaitch]

and Paul Bernardo is now in a medium security institution and is continuing his attempts to be released. I wonder if he plays tennis with Russel Williams. If they had been executed, the families wouldn't face the emotional upheaval and if they were locked up permanently the same would apply. No murderer deserves the opportunity to redeem himself and return to society.

And that's the other side of the argument; what is 'life'. A good start would be to re-visit a consecutive sentencing provision that is acceptable to the Supreme Court.

There will always be 'exceptional' cases but, a big problem is, how would the system define those in words? Words to be interpreted by others over time.

I doubt they are playing tennis together. As far as I know Williams and Bernardo were distributed to two different institutions after KP closed.

 

[YZT580]

And that's the other side of the argument; what is 'life'. A good start would be to re-visit a consecutive sentencing provision that is acceptable to the Supreme Court.

There will always be 'exceptional' cases but, a big problem is, how would the system define those in words? Words to be interpreted by others over time.

I doubt they are playing tennis together. As far as I know Williams and Bernardo were distributed to two different institutions after KP closed.

they are both in La Macaza Quebec now at least according to the Sun.

 

[GR66]

Not I. Changes in forensic technology have shown us the fallibility of the justice system. Beyond a reasonable doubt is already a dammed high bar, and we still get it wrong sometimes. The risk to confidence in the State and its institutions, not to mention the people actually involved, when it turns out later that we got it wrong, is irreversible.

We were absolutely convinced, beyond a reasonable doubt, that David Milgaard, Guy Paul Morin and Steven Truscott were guilty - until they weren't.

If you were to ask me if some people deserve death as a consequence of their actions my answer would be an absolute YES! However, as @lenaitch rightly notes our justice system is not infallible and I would much prefer that some individuals that absolutely deserve to die instead spend the rest of their days behind bars (even at considerable expense to society) over the risk of the State murdering an innocent person.

That being said there needs to be reform to our justice system to ensure that those who commit serious crimes receive punishment commensurate with the crime they commit. While a agree with the concept that the Justice system should seek to reform offenders and give them a chance to become productive members of society, I also believe that for the most violent types of crimes there also needs to be a serious dose of punishment.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The question isn't whether some of the supremely vile guilty deserve death. The question is whether some of those supremely innocent but wrongly believed to fall into the former category have to risk it to satisfy someone's anger.

 

[RangerRay]

In my mind, there’s a world of difference between someone who murders an abusive spouse out of desperation, a gang-banger who murders another gang-banger, and a sick f*** who murders a random innocent. In my mind, only one of those deserves capital punishment in my mind.

As others have said though, it’s not a great system for ensuring the genuinely guilty get that punishment.