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The Coming DND Budget Cut

FSTO

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This has likely been said many times before but when this emergency is over I'm thinking the Canadian Military will take a major hit. Now we in the military could look at this as an opportunity to right some obvious wrongs within the department or we could just work hard to save our own hides (empires) and let others take the hit. Or even worse just allow TB to take the meat cleaver to us because we didn't come to them with a plan.

So in the world of "saving the cutlery" what should the CAF look like in the post covid-19 world?

 

PuckChaser

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Depends on what they're going to cut. Is it L101, or just deferring major procurements? If it's both, we're in a hurt locker more than we already are.
 

Good2Golf

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Some L101 perhaps, but more likely a bunch of C501.
 

daftandbarmy

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FSTO said:
This has likely been said many times before but when this emergency is over I'm thinking the Canadian Military will take a major hit. Now we in the military could look at this as an opportunity to right some obvious wrongs within the department or we could just work hard to save our own hides (empires) and let others take the hit. Or even worse just allow TB to take the meat cleaver to us because we didn't come to them with a plan.

So in the world of "saving the cutlery" what should the CAF look like in the post covid-19 world?

Hopefully, much more physically fit than it is now :)
 

Cloud Cover

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Given the minuscule size of the DND budget in comparison to the overall size of the problem even on a deficit basis, lopping 2/3 of the DND budget and freezing the reminder for eternity would decimate the military and accomplish what else?
 

HiTechComms

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daftandbarmy said:
Hopefully, much more physically fit than it is now :)
Still in the recruiting process
The Covid 19 has been great for me.
Lost fair bit of fat
Got stronger
Run more now
Paid off any consumer debts
Saving money

 

daftandbarmy

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HiTechComms said:
Still in the recruiting process
The Covid 19 has been great for me.
Lost fair bit of fat
Got stronger
Run more now
Paid off any consumer debts
Saving money

Yes!  :salute:
 

Weinie

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FSTO said:
This has likely been said many times before but when this emergency is over I'm thinking the Canadian Military will take a major hit. Now we in the military could look at this as an opportunity to right some obvious wrongs within the department or we could just work hard to save our own hides (empires) and let others take the hit. Or even worse just allow TB to take the meat cleaver to us because we didn't come to them with a plan.

So in the world of "saving the cutlery" what should the CAF look like in the post covid-19 world?

Perhaps like a "Great Reset"
 

rmc_wannabe

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Let's be honest, there isn't much left to take.

Other historical defense cuts had money or capabilities for the taking. This was the case with Papa Trudeau's cut in the 70s and 80s. This was also the case with FRP and the 1994 White Paper. Given previous cuts to spending and capability development, and the increase of commitments both domestically and internationally, what money do they want from us?

 

Remius

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I’ve mentioned it before.  Hiring freeze for PS, Class B cuts, reduction in recruiting numbers across the board.  TD will be curtailed.  Reserve training limited.

Pretty much the same stuff they’ve done before.

 

Jarnhamar

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Reducing DND's budget would reduce their ability to be called out to climate change disasters and other scary things. "Call in the military!" seems to be one of the first responses anytime something happens, from politicians and citizens alike.

I don't think the LPC will want to deal with the optics of it.
 

Remius

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Jarnhamar said:
Reducing DND's budget would reduce their ability to be called out to climate change disasters and other scary things. "Call in the military!" seems to be one of the first responses anytime something happens, from politicians and citizens alike.

I don't think the LPC will want to deal with the optics of it.

I honestly don’t think they care.  They’ll still call in the military and they will have to do their jobs with limited resources.  Just like many times before now. 
 

Haggis

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Jarnhamar said:
Reducing DND's budget would reduce their ability to be called out to climate change disasters and other scary things. "Call in the military!" seems to be one of the first responses anytime something happens, from politicians and citizens alike.

I don't think the LPC will want to deal with the optics of it.

Why not divest some heavy warfighter capabilities like LAVs, Leos and M777s.  They're expensive.  Buy some more duct tape for the CF-18's and tie up a frigate or six.  Most climate emergencies don't require attack aircraft and are in littoral waters.

You'll have to save all the Infantry and unemployed sailors for the gun confiscation duties as Minister Blair has said that this duty will not fall to the police.  :Tin-Foil-Hat:
 

daftandbarmy

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rmc_wannabe said:
Let's be honest, there isn't much left to take.

Other historical defense cuts had money or capabilities for the taking. This was the case with Papa Trudeau's cut in the 70s and 80s. This was also the case with FRP and the 1994 White Paper. Given previous cuts to spending and capability development, and the increase of commitments both domestically and internationally, what money do they want from us?

How about a couple dozen post-offices CBG HQs etc? :)
 

GR66

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Maybe time for the "Great Army Reset"?    :whistle:


In all seriousness though, an Army of 5 Divisions, 3 Reg Force Mechanized Brigade Groups and 10 Reserve Brigade Groups and in other threads we're being aspirational about being able to field and maintain a single Armoured Brigade Group in a high-intensity conflict (with phantom equipment that we hope one day to aquire). 

I think there may be room to make changes to the way things are organized. 

Maybe the imposed restrictions of a tightened budget might be the thing that (finally) pushes those at the top to make those changes, but I'm not going to hold my breath.


 

CBH99

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I agree GR66 - this is a great opportunity to streamline things, and actually use our budget a lot more efficiently.

Like you though, I won't hold my breath.  General Leslie had some great recommendations, and despite him being amongst the senior CAF leadership, nothing changed.  The empires survived.  And General Vance isn't an idiot, I imagine he's well aware the numerous black holes within DND.


My guess though is they won't cut the budget, as the PM has already stated he won't be cutting the budget.  I think they just won't let us spend very much money, and then DND returns it to general revenue at the end of the year.  :2c:
 

Ostrozac

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stoker dave said:
This could be the end of the submarine fleet.

(I won't argue if that is good or bad.)

Submarines are at least mentioned in the SSE Defence Policy. Tanks and indirect fire support are not. The Army transitioning to an infantry-heavy constabulary force just might be in the cards —this arguably might actually be our natural state, with the Germany-based mechanized brigade as a historical quirk.
 

Remius

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Ostrozac said:
Submarines are at least mentioned in the SSE Defence Policy. Tanks and indirect fire support are not. The Army transitioning to an infantry-heavy constabulary force just might be in the cards —this arguably might actually be our natural state, with the Germany-based mechanized brigade as a historical quirk.

Until that one time when we went to to war and realized we need tanks and indirect fire support after someone thought we wouldn’t need them. 
 
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