The Conservative Scandal Sheet: Split from: Stéphane Dion Wins Lib. Leadership

[sober_ruski]

Technically CPC is a different party, a mix of PC and CA.

 

[mjohnston39]

And $200 million to allow Quebec separation to disappear off the radar for almost 10 years is a great policy if we are discussing policy as scandal.

And as a result of their corruption/misdeeds/incompetence, separatism in Quebec and the Bloc has come roaring back...

 

[scoutfinch]

What shocks me most about this thread is that so many people are intent on slagging the other party rather than speaking of the benefits of their own party affiliation.  And I should remind the die-hard Conservatives here as well as the Conservative Party that Canadians are getting tired of the flogging of that poor old horse. Whether politicos or not like it, the 'Liberal scandal' scandal has run its course and currently holds little sway with most of the electorate as it is considered old news.  The CPC should be concerned that if they continue to harp on the issue, it will come back to bite them.

Personally, I think anyone who gets caught up in the dogmatic pursuit of politics is a fool. It isn't about any one person or party.  It should be about a platform. 

Conservative or Liberal -- neither platform or party is perfect so let's stop pretending that Stephen Harper/Stephane Dion is either the antichrist or the saviour of Canada.  Both have their flaws and sadly neither have been around long enough to show us their true colours.  Similarly, -- for very different reasons -- we have no real way of gauging the performance of the 'new' Liberals or the 'new'  Conservatives.  The Liberals because of new leadership.  The Conservatives because of Harper's control mechanisms.

Oh well... that is enough from me until I have had my first coffee.

 

[vonGarvin]

Good point, Sam I Am (and I DO like Green eggs and ham!)



As for coffee, I'm WAY ahead of you!

 

[scoutfinch]

... and we are even in the same time zone!

I'm getting slow.

 

[vonGarvin]

Well, nice to have you aboard.  Now, stay away from the Oromocto Mall, unless you want a spandex overload!  :dontpanic:

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Personally, I think anyone who gets caught up in the dogmatic pursuit of politics is a fool. It isn't about any one person or party.  It should be about a platform. 

The Liberals because of new leadership.  The Conservatives because of Harper's control mechanisms.

Good morning, fool.

 

[vonGarvin]

Good morning, fool.

Hey, she hadn't had her coffee yet, so some dogmatism is to be expected

 

[George Wallace]

I find it amusing, and probably 'typically Canadian', that so many are so often quick to condemn the recently elected public official/politician.  Harper's government hasn't even finished one year of their mandate and they are being slandered by all sorts of hacks.  I see it on the Municipal scale also, where a Mayor is slandered within days of starting his mandate, by people expecting miracles.  This can also be parleyed to our operations in Afghanistan and the expectations of the current generations that magically the problems there (as well as in Iraq) will be fixed in a couple of years.  Look how long it took to rebuild Germany and Japan after WW II.  Reality bites. 

If there is any scandal here, it is the numpties who are crying "Scandal!" into the four winds.  Panic mongering fools.

 

[Scott]

If there is any scandal here, it is the numpties who are crying "Scandal!" into the four winds.  Panic mongering fools.

Pissed off Liberals and New Democrats.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

What shocks me most about this thread is that so many people are intent on slagging the other party rather than speaking of the benefits of their own party affiliation.

I think that speaks to the name of the thread.  There is a specific indictment of the CPC and accuses it of scandal.  As many of us are pretty sick of Liberal hypocrisy, therein lays the thrust of commentary.  If there was a "CPC Rocks, and this is Why" thread, maybe you would see more conservative endorsement.

And I should remind the die-hard Conservatives here as well as the Conservative Party that Canadians are getting tired of the flogging of that poor old horse. Whether politicos or not like it, the 'Liberal scandal' scandal has run its course and currently holds little sway with most of the electorate as it is considered old news. 

Yes, the media has grown tired of following up a critical issue.  What a shock.  But just because the left supporting media hasn't kept on the subject doesn't mean that it isn't still important.  I consider myself at least half way well read, and I was not aware of the ongoing investigation into the 2 billion that "evaporated" (although could be more of a MP than a TP)

The CPC should be concerned that if they continue to harp on the issue, it will come back to bite them.

And at such time as they steal 2 billion plus dollars and pay it out through back channels to their toadies and then waste billions more on a nonviable program (read Gun Reg) then I will be the first to applaud them being bitten.  If you are inferring that there may be some skeleton in the closet that the Libs will play if provoked too much, I would think that it would have been played by now. 

Personally, I think anyone who gets caught up in the dogmatic pursuit of politics is a fool. It isn't about any one person or party.  It should be about a platform. 

To a certain extent, but look at how much damage Jean Cretin did as one person.  John Gotti has nothing on him.

Conservative or Liberal -- neither platform or party is perfect so let's stop pretending that Stephen Harper/Stephane Dion is either the antichrist or the saviour of Canada.  Both have their flaws and sadly neither have been around long enough to show us their true colours.  Similarly, -- for very different reasons -- we have no real way of gauging the performance of the 'new' Liberals or the 'new'  Conservatives.  The Liberals because of new leadership.  The Conservatives because of Harper's control mechanisms.

Agreed, this will be a watch and shoot.  However, Conservative true colours are not all that hard to predict.  No doubt there will be some sort of favoritism that emerges somewhere, but at least it will likely be for the benefit of a company, which employs Canadians and pays taxes here, as opposed to someone who simply is willing to tow the shaky Red line (I acknowledge the completely opinion based conjecture of the preceding)

 

[Journeyman]

Nobody remember the Airbus scandal[?]

Now, are you referring to the Airbus scandal where Mulroney/Moores were accused of accepting kickbacks (settled out of court with Chrétien's gov't apologizing)?

Or do you mean the ongoing & future Airbus scandal where the opposition parties are trying to buy airplanes that don't exist and can't even begin full production until sometime after 2010?

 

[George Wallace]

Now, are you referring to the Airbus scandal where Mulroney/Moores were accused of accepting kickbacks (settled out of court with Chrétien's gov't apologizing)?

Or do you mean the ongoing & future Airbus scandal where the opposition parties are trying to buy airplanes that don't exist and can't even begin full production until sometime after 2010?

Or the Chretien scandal of mothballing "Prime Minister 1" and putting it up for sale (still no buyers ?) and converting the fleet over to cargo carriers/tankers?

 

[Journeyman]

Whether politicos or not like it, the 'Liberal scandal' scandal has run its course and currently holds little sway with most of the electorate as it is considered old news. 

I get the feeling (probably as "accurate" as some polling services, but that's a separate thread  )...anyway, I think most people are getting tired of politics.

Fewer people seem able to, or interested in, distinguishing one party from another. Our elected representatives' churlish and petty behaviour, coupled with an apparently widespread absence of even the remotest sense of ethics - - getting re-elected trumps any responsibility to the electorate - - has turned many against caring about the government's actions.

While the disreputable actions of Chrétien's and Martin's Liberal governments may still be fresh in peoples' minds, the "toeing the party line or else" caucus policy of Harper has effectively eliminated electorate representation. For those Canadians who are remotely interested, it's difficult to get past the mindless, self-centred bleating that passes as "debate" in the House.

Personally, I favour the platform espoused by the Conservatives over the actions committed by a decade of Liberal government. But time will tell if the uncaring electorate is right - - merely a horse of a different shade.

Oh well, just my view.....fuelled by having two coffees while reading the overnight traffic  :

 

[vonGarvin]

While the disreputable actions of Chrétien's and Martin's Liberal governments may still be fresh in peoples' minds, the "toeing the party line or else" caucus policy of Harper has effectively eliminated electorate representation.

As I pointed out earlier, the CPC and Harper aren't alone in such policy.  Except for Budgets, I would like to see a House of Commons were NO votes were whipped.  But, then again, I'd also like a sneak-peek at Friday's Super 7 numbers

 

[ArmyRick]

I found an earlier remakr by buds regarding the reverse onus and fingering the consitution.

Personally I have zero time for trudeau and the crap he brought in. The consitution needs amendments (note our brothers in the south are ahead of us on this one)...

ANYBODY who thinks the reverse onus on serious crimes is a big threat to personal liberties better try living in Jane and finch for a year and then lets see what they say.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Fewer people seem able to, or interested in, distinguishing one party from another. Our elected representatives' churlish and petty behaviour, coupled with an apparently widespread absence of even the remotest sense of ethics - - getting re-elected trumps any responsibility to the electorate - - has turned many against caring about the government's actions.

Agreed.  I only have to watch about five minutes of question period to want to go in there and bitch slap every bloody one of them.  Especially the toadies in the background that think that a childish comeback is worthy of a standing ovation. 

 

[scoutfinch]

Good morning, fool.

Read the whole statement in context and I think I am pretty clear about party politics and the cult of personality associated within.  

I am neither Liberal nor Conservative.  I am however socially liberal and fiscally conservative.  There is a world of difference.

Like I said, it is about platforms.  Not parties nor personalities.  

Do I like the Liberal platforms?  I don't know yet.

Do I like the Conservative platforms?  Some yes. Some no.  I am not going to pretend the Conservatives are perfect nor are they entirely flawed.

It is the unthinking, unbending, rigid pursuit of party politics that has bifurcated the electorate in the US that has ultimately hamstrung the will of the American people.  I only hope it doesn't happen here.

 

[scoutfinch]

To follow up on Zipperhead's last:

I don't think there are skeletons in the CPC closet.... yet.  They haven't been there long enough.  But because we are dealing with politicians, I feel safe in saying that it is just a matter of time.

In the debate over who is the most corrupt/honest, I don't think the political party matters so much.  I think most of them will do/say anything to gain or preserve access to power. (Hell, I dont' think it even has anything to do with $$$, just power).

 

[scoutfinch]

I found an earlier remakr by buds regarding the reverse onus and fingering the consitution.

Personally I have zero time for trudeau and the crap he brought in. The consitution needs amendments (note our brothers in the south are ahead of us on this one)...

ANYBODY who thinks the reverse onus on serious crimes is a big threat to personal liberties better try living in Jane and finch for a year and then lets see what they say.

Most of the amendments to the American constitution were to further  liberties and to guarantee rights.... kinda like our Charter did.

The reverse onus is an abomination in a legal system with the presumption of innocence.  Presumably, if the offender is on his/her third strike, it won't be so hard for the government to prove them a dangerous offender anyway.  It happens every day in this country.  Make the prosecutors do their jobs.