The Defence Budget [superthread]

[The Bread Guy]

300K will buy a week in the field for 1 CMBG.

Excellent stat - useful as a response to anyone saying, "it's only a few hundred thousand, nothing that'll break the bank if we keep it in."

 

[Edward Campbell]

Excellent stat - useful as a response to anyone saying, "it's only a few hundred thousand, nothing that'll break the bank if we keep it in."

:goodpost:

And it reinforces the good points made by Infanteer and PPCLI Guy. Sorry as I am too see BGen Mike Jorgensen shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic paper on the 13th floor, he's doing the right thing and he's doing things right.

Remember this, Old Sweat?

I'm not sure printing "Misuse is abuse" on pencils and rulers was cost effective but you and I both remember what real austerity felt like, don't we?

 

[Old Sweat]

The trouble with cutting the small stuff is that the system lacks the discipline to keep all the little "nice to haves" out. Watch for the plants to creep back in over the next few years. I may be cynical, but how much could be saved by curtailing or rolling back the growth in headquarters' size and especially the ones that exist purely to put the gloss of self importance on staff functions? Methinks the institutional wing of the CAF and DND is hunkered down and will outwit and out wait the reformers once again.

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... how much could be saved by curtailing or rolling back the growth in headquarters' size and especially the ones that exist purely to put the gloss of self importance on staff functions? ....

The tough part is reaching internal consensus at that level re: which bits "put the gloss of self importance on staff functions".  Who offers to walk the plank first?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I wonder how much baby will go with the bath water.

 

[Edward Campbell]

The trouble with cutting the small stuff is that the system lacks the discipline to keep all the little "nice to haves" out. Watch for the plants to creep back in over the next few years. I may be cynical, but how much could be saved by curtailing or rolling back the growth in headquarters' size and especially the ones that exist purely to put the gloss of self importance on staff functions? Methinks the institutional wing of the CAF and DND is hunkered down and will outwit and out wait the reformers once again.

I couldn't agree more, but you and I have both seen more than one of these decades of darkness®, and that's why you know the small stuff, the "nice to haves," will creep back, but, until (unless) some organizational discipline is imposed on the CF ~ because it seems unlikely that the CF will discipline itself, the "senior leadership" being bereft of leaders ~ then the small stuff will have to do. Warships are being tied up, potted plants for HQ functionaries can go, too.

Of course, maybe Capt Bligh (or the captain from "Mister Roberts") could use them ... to raise morale, of course.

 

[dapaterson]

Perhaps leave the plants, and let the employees water them on their own time, instead of hiring plant attendants?  After all, for the past decade everyone in NDHQ takes care of their own garbage - no cleaners.

Do folks in 1 CMBG still have cleaners picking up garbage from their desks?

 

[Infanteer]

Do folks in 1 CMBG still have cleaners picking up garbage from their desks?

Yep, she just came through my office.  Mind you, I believe that is a 3 CDSG/CDSB Edm expense.

 

[dapaterson]

Yep, she just came through my office.  Mind you, I believe that is a 3 CDSG/CDSB Edm expense.

So, you're saying Comd 3 Div spends money on cleaners to pick up your trash rather than have you take it out the bin yourself.  And therefore that's a higher priority to him than giving 1 CMBG more money for training.

And how much is spent on ground maintenance for Edmonton - for flowers etc - you know, the plants that will be eliminated in NDHQ?

I'm betting there's more than 300K that could be saved in Edmonton alone... but this 300K is in NDHQ / CFSU(Ottawa), and therefore we should eliminate everything there.

 

[Occam]

And how much is spent on ground maintenance for Edmonton - for flowers etc - you know, the plants that will be eliminated in NDHQ?

Looking here at LStL and 455 DLC (now known as the ADM(Mat) Campus), I don't see many plants in common areas within the buildings.  I know this is outside the scope of the e-mail this morning - but the landscaping and greenery that is done on the outside surrounding the two buildings is impressive...and IMHO overkill.  We could fence in the property surrounding the buildings, post an armed guard, and grow cash crops (medicinal pot, perhaps?) to supplement DND's budget. 

Now where did I put that ADM(Mat) Suggestion Award form...

 

[dapaterson]

Looking here at LStL and 455 DLC (now known as the ADM(Mat) Campus), I don't see many plants in common areas within the buildings.  I know this is outside the scope of the e-mail this morning - but the landscaping and greenery that is done on the outside surrounding the two buildings is impressive...and IMHO overkill.  We could fence in the property surrounding the buildings, post an armed guard, and grow cash crops (medicinal pot, perhaps?) to supplement DND's budget. 

Now where did I put that ADM(Mat) Suggestion Award form...

Ah, but those are not DND owned buildings.  Rented.  And the owners have requirements under local zoning to maintain the properties (which they contract out).

But the idea of growing medical maijuana in a secure area, like the hallways of NDHQ... I think you deserve a DM's innovation award.  Or at least a bag of nacho chips.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

All cleaning services at CFB Shilo are done by a contracted from sweeping floors to taking out the garbage.

 

[Occam]

Ah, but those are not DND owned buildings.  Rented. 

Seen.  That would explain it.

But the idea of growing medical maijuana in a secure area, like the hallways of NDHQ... I think you deserve a DM's innovation award.  Or at least a bag of nacho chips.

I like nacho chips.  ;D 

Kidding aside, this is my first experience with a frozen NICP (spare parts) budget, and it's a little daunting.  All these buys are piling up, and when the taps reopen in April, I can see the budget being exhausted in very short order.  The techs in uniform are going to have to do some creative maintenance on the equipment when parts bins in the warehouses start coming up empty.

 

[Edward Campbell]

...
Kidding aside, this is my first experience with a frozen NICP (spare parts) budget, and it's a little daunting.  All these buys are piling up, and when the taps reopen in April, I can see the budget being exhausted in very short order.  The techs in uniform are going to have to do some creative maintenance on the equipment when parts bins in the warehouses start coming up empty.

We've been through that before and hopefully the folks in the LCMM shops and in the 3rd andf 2nd line maintenance units remember how to manage shortages and how to manage the (too small) "flood" in April.

Good luck!

 

[Infanteer]

So, you're saying Comd 3 Div spends money on cleaners to pick up your trash rather than have you take it out the bin yourself.  And therefore that's a higher priority to him than giving 1 CMBG more money for training.

And how much is spent on ground maintenance for Edmonton - for flowers etc - you know, the plants that will be eliminated in NDHQ?

I'm betting there's more than 300K that could be saved in Edmonton alone... but this 300K is in NDHQ / CFSU(Ottawa), and therefore we should eliminate everything there.

Sure.  But my budget only has L101, so I don't know who decides to pay for cleaners but if I do, I'll pass on your idea. 

 

[McG]

The trouble with cutting the small stuff is that the system lacks the discipline to keep all the little "nice to haves" out.

I wonder how much baby will go with the bath water.

These are my worries.  Part of the answer is here:

That's the kind of line item review that needs to be done; managing the budget won't be about big things like cutting a battalion, it'll be about eliminating the death by 1000 cuts that occurs daily throughout the defence budget.

The potential savings are exist; we have identified a number of reduction opportunities in this thread already and can now add office garbage removal and plant maintenance to the growing list of potential savings.

Unfortunately, it is easier to take the belt-sander to evenly wear-down everywhere than it is to locate and make deep cuts to the areas of luxury and option … especially to those such areas that also have stakeholders ready to fight for preserving the excess.

In a time of austerity, the loss of indoor vegetation is a good news story. 

 

[Privateer]

My suggestion for one (admittedly minor) item that could be cut immediately:  The plastic name tags worn on DEU.  The tags are ugly and unnecessary on non-operational clothing.  An easy item to just delete from the system.  These should just disappear.

 

[Furniture]

Perhaps leave the plants, and let the employees water them on their own time, instead of hiring plant attendants?  After all, for the past decade everyone in NDHQ takes care of their own garbage - no cleaners.

Do folks in 1 CMBG still have cleaners picking up garbage from their desks?

This is an excellent idea! No cleaners just like on ship, the Jr ranks will clean all of the ship/office twice a day. Of course during that time nothing else will get done because the highly paid experts are scrubbing toilets and floors... seems like a perfect system. Maybe we should hire a few thousand extra Pte-Cpl to make sure our toilets and break rooms are clean at all times, we cam even call them Molly's to keep the RCN influence alive.

Taking garbage from desks is the least important function of cleaners, that's like saying we have electronic banking so we don't need pay clerks....

 

[Occam]

My suggestion for one (admittedly minor) item that could be cut immediately:  The plastic name tags worn on DEU.  The tags are ugly and unnecessary on non-operational clothing.  An easy item to just delete from the system.  These should just disappear.

Or......if you really want a DEU nametag, you can buy (from your personal funds) one of those designer/vanity nametags that I've seen OUTCAN people wear.  You know:

Lieutenant Commander James "Jimbo" Bloggins
Royal Canadian Navy
Executive Assistant to the Chief Bottle Washer
ADCOMSUBORDCOMPHIBSPAC

Toss on a couple of unit/command badges and you're good to go.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Wrt the plants contract, to put it in context, the contractor performing the work hired mentally handicapped people to do the work, so now they are out of work.  This was cut across a number of departments.

No idea where the actual plants where, as there aren't any 'fitted' plants in LStL, but this was more of a community service.