The Defence Budget [superthread]

[TCM621]

Even the CBC is turning on JT and defending the military? Am I in an alternate dimension?

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[jmt18325]

We just deferred what, $8+ billion in spending to the 2030s? 

op:

I'm still on this - what do they do if we don't?  Nuke us?

 

[PuckChaser]

Stop allowing Canadian troops from training in the US? Tighten ITAR restrictions removing our ability to get Type 1 Cryptographic material? Plenty can be done if the PM does stop cutting at the CAF like his father and Chretien did.

 

[jmt18325]

Stop allowing Canadian troops from training in the US? Tighten ITAR restrictions removing our ability to get Type 1 Cryptographic material? Plenty can be done if the PM does stop cutting at the CAF like his father and Chretien did.

And what would be the practical consequences of that to Canadians?  I don't really see Canadians caring enough about that to call the government to action - frankly, I'm not sure that Canadians should care.  The 2% target is rather arbitrary, as is the two week deadline.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I'm still on this - what do they do if we don't?  Nuke us?

No, but they can crush our economy in other ways in retaliation, in a heart beat, especially since we have a 'Commie' Prime Minister in (soft) power now:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-trade-softwood-dairy-1.3966926

 

[jollyjacktar]

An even more hamstrung and ineffective military, equipment wise.

If we, as a nation, aren't interested in providing/participating for our defence, someone else will do it to us.  And that, jmt, won't be a happy solution to Canadians as we'll be something else and no longer Canadians.  Being another country's prison bitch, will be what we deserve, too.

(mentality wise, it's usually those whom bitch about the police the most are the first to scream for them, when they feel frightened)

 

[PuckChaser]

And what would be the practical consequences of that to Canadians?  I don't really see Canadians caring enough about that to call the government to action - frankly, I'm not sure that Canadians should care.  The 2% target is rather arbitrary, as is the two week deadline.

2 months is the deadline. In a practical sense, as long as Canadians still see the Snowbirds, CFL flypasts and the ceremonial guard, no one will be able to see the rot under the shiny paint.

 

[jmt18325]

2 months is the deadline. In a practical sense, as long as Canadians still see the Snowbirds, CFL flypasts and the ceremonial guard, no one will be able to see the rot under the shiny paint.

Sorry, for some reason I had two weeks in my head. 

 

[MilEME09]

2 months is the deadline. In a practical sense, as long as Canadians still see the Snowbirds, CFL flypasts and the ceremonial guard, no one will be able to see the rot under the shiny paint.

Well cant have snow birds or flypasts if ITAR has us unable to get spare parts in a timely manner

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[jmt18325]

No, but they can crush our economy in other ways in retaliation, in a heart beat, especially since we have a 'Commie' Prime Minister in (soft) power now:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-trade-softwood-dairy-1.3966926

I'm going to leave the commie discussion for another thread (but no, we don't).  The idea that the US will 'crush' Canada economically because we continue to spend the way that we have for such a long time is kind of preposterous.  Trump has displayed little ability to affect any kind of actual change as of yet.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Trump has displayed little ability to affect any kind of actual change as of yet.

You mean besides making American great again?  :blotto:

 

[The Bread Guy]

... The idea that the US will 'crush' Canada economically because we continue to spend the way that we have for such a long time is kind of preposterous ...

"Crush" may be too strong a word, but can the U.S. "twist arms"?  I'd say yes - and this is true no matter who's in the White House.  Meanwhile ...

"Trump to order probe into how 16 countries are abusing trade with the U.S., including Canada"

 

[Journeyman]

"Trump to order probe ....."

Every time I see "Trump" and "probe,"  I can't help but think of aliens... 

 

[MilEME09]

So I found out where all the boots went, given to VAC for the Vimy event this coming sunday. CTV showed what they said were "boots worn by canadian soldiers" all around the memorial with a poppy in each boot. Boot's look like they hadn't ever been worn. >

 

[MilEME09]

The Senate Defense committee has released today part one of it's own defense policy review. Below is a link to it as well as the video of the press conference, but the sound is bad on the video. Part two with detailed recommendations will be released in May.

https://sencanada.ca/en/sencaplus/news/canada-not-carrying-its-weight-when-it-comes-to-defence-spending/


The key recommendations.

The committee recommends that the government present a budget plan to Parliament within 180 days to increase defence spending to 1.5% of GDP by 2023, and to 2% of GDP by 2028. It is difficult to plan for the future when objectives are not clear. The Canadian military has commitments at home and abroad; identifying priorities and providing the necessary support is essential for success.

The committee recommends that the government make the necessary investments to ensure the military is fully equipped and trained to carry out Canada’s defence priorities:
-The protection of Canadian sovereignty, including the Arctic,
-The defence of North America under NORAD, and
-Full participation in NATO as well in United Nations and other multilateral international operations.

Fixing military procurement will require an extensive overhaul of current practices. A representative group of parliamentarians should work toward finding a long-term solution.

The committee recommends that Parliament establish a Special Joint Parliamentary Committee with senators and MPs to study and report on military procurement. In the meantime, the Minister of National Defence should appoint a lead negotiator for each procurement project valued at over $1 billion to make the process more efficient.

 

[TCM621]

The Senate Defense committee has released today part one of it's own defense policy review. Below is a link to it as well as the video of the press conference, but the sound is bad on the video. Part two with detailed recommendations will be released in May.

https://sencanada.ca/en/sencaplus/news/canada-not-carrying-its-weight-when-it-comes-to-defence-spending/


The key recommendations.

I can't wait for the government's response to this. Should be good for a laugh.

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[Cdn Blackshirt]

This could be interesting for a couple of reasons as both the current liberal government and the US could use it as the basis of negotiations.

"If we are exempt from a border adjustment tax and Canada is included as part of the American Trade solution, we will do the following."

"If a border adjustment tax is instituted or other exclusionary measures are applied, we will be unable to do the following and instead will need to do ________."

 

[The Bread Guy]

This from the Senate's Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence ...

The federal government should increase military spending to 2% of Canada’s gross domestic product to prevent the continued erosion of our existing military capabilities and to fulfil our obligations to Canadians and our allies, senators said in a report released Thursday.

Successive governments have failed to provide the military with the support and clear priorities it needs to defend Canada and fulfil its international commitments. Today, Canada is spending 0.88% of GDP on the military. This is clearly insufficient.

Canada needs to be properly defended.

In its report, Military Underfunded: The Walk Must Match the Talk, the Senate Committee on National Security and Defence makes 16 recommendations to shore up Canada’s military and to address problems that have plagued it for decades.

The committee recommends the government present a plan to Parliament within 180 days to increase defence spending to 1.5% of Canada’s gross domestic product (GDP) by 2023 and to 2% by 2028.

These much needed funds will be used to address the urgent capability gaps within the military and ensure effective security and defence for Canadians. It will also allow Canada to fulfil the government’s requirement that the military must also be able to simultaneously meet our NORAD and NATO obligations.

The committee notes that military procurement also requires urgent attention and a total revamp. The current system is a bureaucratic morass with little accountability. It is prone to delays that prevent the timely acquisition of necessary materiel and diminish the government’s purchasing power. The committee makes a number of recommendations to address this long-standing issue.

The committee also urges the government to do more to protect critical infrastructure, eliminate lapse funding, and to move forward with plans to promote a cross-party consensus on military issues, as this will be in the best interest of Canadians.

The government can no longer afford to just talk the talk while the military struggles. Our national defence is too important. It is time for the government to turn words into action and make the much needed investments in our own security and defence.

Quick Facts

    More than $2 billion per year in new money is needed to maintain current operations.
    Canada’s military spending is in decline and accounts for just 0.88% of GDP.
    Canada ranks 23rd out of 28 NATO member countries in defence spending.

Quotes

“Government after government has talked a good game about the military while providing less and less support. The current government has pledged to ensure our military does not get short-changed. The recommendations made in this report — if adopted — will allow the government to keep its promise. It’s time for the walk to match the talk.”

- Senator Daniel Lang, Chair of the committee.

“Our military has important commitments at home and abroad. Defending our vast Arctic region requires significant resources, while helping our international partners ensure the rule of law is respected in trouble countries overseas is a humanitarian commitment from which we cannot shrink. We ask a lot from our military. Now we must show that we support them, as they unfailingly support us.”

- Senator Mobina Jaffer, Deputy Chair of the committee ...

This, from the summary of the report (2 MB 56 page PDF) - exec summary also attached in case link to report doesn't work for you...

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

This report focuses on broader issues related to the Canadian military and the defence policy review.  Specifically, it addresses:
• the continual underfunding of Canada’s own security needs, and through that the military;
• the problems of an overly-complex procurement system that lapses billions of dollars annually and under delivers equipment to the military;
• risks to Canada’s critical infrastructure;
• the need for cross-party consensus on military issues; and
• the need for quadrennial defence policy reviews and reviews of national security strategy and foreign policy.

(...)

PROVIDING ADEQUATE FUNDING TO THE MILITARY

For too long, successive governments have called on military women and men to do more and more — yet these governments have failed to invest in the tools required for the job.  Today, spending on the military is 0.88% of Canada’s gross domestic product (GDP), well short of our commitment as part of the NATO alliance to spend 2% of GDP on our own security and defence needs. 

At the same time, spending on defence has been shrinking as a percentage of total government expenditure. This is a troubling sign for the military.  Today, Canada ranks 23rd of 28 NATO members when it comes to spending on our own defence.

This is unacceptable. 

Chronic underfunding of the military and buck passing must stop.

(...)

1. INCREASE SPENDING TO 2% OF GDP TO ENSURE SAFETY AND SECURITY IS MAINTAINED

(...)

2. FIXING CANADA’S MILITARY PROCUREMENT SYSTEM

(...)

3. DO MORE TO COORDINATE CYBER DEFENCES AND PROTECT CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE

(...)

4. REGULAR REVIEW OF DEFENCE POLICY REQUIRED

(...)

5. BUILD CROSS-PARTY CONSENSUS ON MILITARY ISSUES

(...)

 

[MarkOttawa]

Two key recommendations, cyber and missile defence--will gov't take seriously (bucks?)--p. 10 PDF (link is full report):
https://sencanada.ca/content/sen/committee/421/SECD/Reports/DEFENCE_DPR_FINAL_e.pdf

...
Recommendation 12:
That  the  Government  of  Canada  explore  opportunities  to  coordinate  an  integrated  joint  cyber
defence  strategy  with  the  United  States  as  well  as  other  countries  and  report  to  Parliament  on 
best options within 180 days...

Recommendation 14:
That the Government of Canada become a full partner with the United States on Ballistic Missile
Defence;  provide  strategic  locations  for  radar  installation;  and  collaborate  on  joint  research  and 
technology partnerships...

Mark
Ottawa

 

[PuckChaser]

We're taxing the new legal weed. Sounds like a great place to find $5B to bring us up to a respectable budget.