The "Did Minister Sajjan 'Order' Sikh's To Be Airlifted?" Merged Thread

[daftandbarmy]

Just remember the old rule that if you don’t like your enemies to have a certain power, be very careful about giving someone you like the same powers.

Well, and then there's this inconvenient truth

“The first method for estimating the intelligence of a ruler is to look at the men he has around him.”

― Niccolò Machiavelli

 

[RangerRay]

If you had a party campaign and champion government reform and more anti corruption laws, they would probably win the election

Funnily enough, every party that won with greater transparency in it’s promise book ended up increasing government opaqueness.

 

[Fabius]

Can a change in government lead to a new government changing thst status or once it's declared does it stay cabinet confidence?

I seem to recall the Trudeau Government asking former PM Stephen Harper for permission to release cabinet documents from the Harper Government relating to Admiral Norman’s trial.

I am not sure if it was legally needed to ask or if the PCO can release stuff on its own. I suspect that no matter what government is in power they would not want to set a precedent of releasing the previous governments cabinet confidences.

 

[YZT580]

I seem to recall the Trudeau Government asking former PM Stephen Harper for permission to release cabinet documents from the Harper Government relating to Admiral Norman’s trial.

I am not sure if it was legally needed to ask or if the PCO can release stuff on its own. I suspect that no matter what government is in power they would not want to set a precedent of releasing the previous governments cabinet confidences.

can't imagine what relevance any conservative government documents would have had to the charges that were leveled against the Admiral. The events all occurred years after Trudeau took over and were related to decisions that his government were making. Perhaps trying to blow smoke? Do you recall the answer they received from Harper?

 

[Blackadder1916]

can't imagine what relevance any conservative government documents would have had to the charges that were leveled against the Admiral. The events all occurred years after Trudeau took over and were related to decisions that his government were making. Perhaps trying to blow smoke? Do you recall the answer they received from Harper?

Harper's government was well known for invoking "cabinet confidence" on any number of issues during its mandate.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/new-policy-quietly-tightens-lid-on-federal-cabinet-secrets-1.2967137

But as to the Norman trial, these couple of NP articles provide a reasonable explanation about request from Norman's defense team for Harper era cabinet documents.

Harper's approval needed to release some files requested in Norman case

Cabinet confidences produced by previous governments are held under lock and key by the clerk of the Privy Council due to their sensitive nature

nationalpost.com

Because of their extremely sensitive nature and the potential for using them as political weapons, cabinet confidences are not passed from one government to another. Rather, those produced by previous governments are held under lock and key by the clerk of the Privy Council.

“A government, by convention, can only authorize disclosure of its own cabinet confidences,” said University of Ottawa professor Yan Campagnolo, who has studied the rules around cabinet secrecy.

“The current government does not have access to the cabinet confidences created under the previous government.”

How evidence from Harper's Conservative government helped collapse the case against Mark Norman

The RCMP failed to interview a single elected official or political staffer from the Harper-era. So Norman's defence team conducted their own investigation

nationalpost.com

And for extra credit, a commentary on "The Political Legitimacy of Cabinet Secrecy" by the U of O law prof who is quoted in the above article.

https://www.canlii.org/en/commentary/doc/2017CanLIIDocs3560

 

[YZT580]

Harper's government was well known for invoking "cabinet confidence" on any number of issues during its mandate.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/new-policy-quietly-tightens-lid-on-federal-cabinet-secrets-1.2967137

But as to the Norman trial, these couple of NP articles provide a reasonable explanation about request from Norman's defense team for Harper era cabinet documents.

Harper's approval needed to release some files requested in Norman case

Cabinet confidences produced by previous governments are held under lock and key by the clerk of the Privy Council due to their sensitive nature

nationalpost.com

How evidence from Harper's Conservative government helped collapse the case against Mark Norman

The RCMP failed to interview a single elected official or political staffer from the Harper-era. So Norman's defence team conducted their own investigation

nationalpost.com

And for extra credit, a commentary on "The Political Legitimacy of Cabinet Secrecy" by the U of O law prof who is quoted in the above article.

https://www.canlii.org/en/commentary/doc/2017CanLIIDocs3560

thank you

 

[dimsum]

Just remember the old rule that if you don’t like your enemies to have a certain power, be very careful about giving someone you like the same powers.

Or its corollary evidenced in the US:

Be very careful about giving someone you like a power if the “other guy” is currently in power, and can invoke said powers.

But I digress.

 

[mariomike]

, but also that (like Biden’s last video where @mariomike put the full video on that showed he didn’t say what was alleged) words can be easily twisted to suit a particular point of view.

Credit where credit is due. I believe it was Retired AF Guy,

Here is a link to the original telecast. In it Biden does says, " I beat him again in 2020." He then says, "By-the-way, We'll beat him again in 2024." The above video leaves out the second comment which does give a little added context.

Go to the 5:00 mark for the comments.

Defiant Biden insists he's 'staying in the race' ahead of ABC News interview

ABC's George Stephanopoulos' has the first post-debate TV sit-down with Biden.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Halifax Tar]

You mean like "this will be the last election under first past the post"?

I was duped with that one.

Or, they will “realize” that the system that elected them works fine… for them.

You missed the last part. I got you pookie.

 

[Kirkhill]

Just remember the old rule that if you don’t like your enemies to have a certain power, be very careful about giving someone you like the same powers.

Golden Rule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do as you would be done by.

 

[dimsum]

Sikh Groups Say Globe and Mail Reporting on 2021 Kabul Evacuation is Missing Context and Promotes Racist Tropes

Here’s what Canadian organizations closely involved with the evacuation of Afghan Sikhs and Hindus say happened in 2021

pressprogress.ca

The part about 25 MPs signing a petition in 2020 to bring Afghan Sikhs and Hindus to Canada is a new twist.

If true, then efforts were in progress for years to get them out.

 

[YZT580]

Sikh Groups Say Globe and Mail Reporting on 2021 Kabul Evacuation is Missing Context and Promotes Racist Tropes

Here’s what Canadian organizations closely involved with the evacuation of Afghan Sikhs and Hindus say happened in 2021

pressprogress.ca

The part about 25 MPs signing a petition in 2020 to bring Afghan Sikhs and Hindus to Canada is a new twist.

If true, then efforts were in progress for years to get them out.

irrelevant. The info machine is blowing smoke. First priority should have been Canadian citizens, employees and translators and then, if any time was left, other at-risk parties. If there was so much concern before hand why weren't there scheduled evacuation flights from the time Trump announced the pull-out?

 

[dimsum]

irrelevant. The info machine is blowing smoke. First priority should have been Canadian citizens, employees and translators and then, if any time was left, other at-risk parties. If there was so much concern before hand why weren't there scheduled evacuation flights from the time Trump announced the pull-out?

That is a question for GAC and the RCAF

 

[SeaKingTacco]

That is a question for GAC and the RCAF

Nope- disagree.

This is firmly a question for the former MND.