The Emerging CAF Deep Sense-Strike Complex

[Underway]

Not sure if people have recognized the emerging strategy behind CAF acquisitions that focus on long range sense and strike.

Sensors. AEWC, OTHR, CDSEA, DESSP

Shooters. Eventually we'll have HIMARS with PrSM, RCD with TLAM, F-35s with JASSMs.

By say 2036, the CAF will have a multi-domain deep sense and strike complex with the ability to acquire targets and prosecute them at substantial ranges (easily greater than 300 km).

Something to consider for discussion.

Satellite Based Moving Target Indicators, other space based assets.

Naval Strike Missile can hit land targets.

If we get Korean submarines then you can potentially add Hyunmoo 4-4 Ballistic missiles (500+km range). The Germans are offering torp tube launched NSM.

---

Software is weird. Systems like the Canadian Artillery system are quite good (Ukraine had some recommendations on how to improve it but generally they thought it was good), CMS 330 for the frigates is excellent and always being improved.

DRDC invented a flight deck management system + software that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world for a strictly Canadian problem. It works well enough.

Current shipboard ASW processing (again developed by DRDC) is friggin amazing.

OSI bridge management system is world recognized.

But most of these are cases where we either develop our own system internally to deal with a specific issue (DRNC involvement) or we go to an already recognized industrial leader to give us what they have (OSI).

I have been unimpressed with quite a few software systems that were offered... particularly Adobe!

 

[ytz]

I trust Palantir about as far as I can throw them, while covering them with a weapon…

While I think they have a good edge in certain fields, they are a data aggregator, and will take everything they can get.

Fair enough. There's a vigorous debate at CJOC and a few other headshops on Maven right now. I'm in the pro-Maven camp because I'm sick of endless debate. But I can see merits in getting something else.

 

[ytz]

Satellite Based Moving Target Indicators, other space based assets.

Naval Strike Missile can hit land targets.

If we get Korean submarines then you can potentially add Hyunmoo 4-4 Ballistic missiles (500+km range). The Germans are offering torp tube launched NSM.

There's one challenge here. A lot of this didn't start out with a coherent strategy. A bunch of disparate projects just happened to be coalescing to a more coherent capability stuff doctrine. I do wish there was actual discussion and thought on the doctrine so that the pieces could be made to fit together.

A bunch of staff weanies at the Maj/LCOL shouldn't be trying to make their projects fit by Teams chats, mess beers and PowerPoint. Maybe I'm too idealistic.....

 

[Furniture]

There's one challenge here. A lot of this didn't start out with a coherent strategy. A bunch of disparate projects just happened to be coalescing to a more coherent capability stuff doctrine. I do wish there was actual discussion and thought on the doctrine so that the pieces could be made to fit together.

A bunch of staff weanies at the Maj/LCOL shouldn't be trying to make their projects fit by Teams chats, mess beers and PowerPoint. Maybe I'm too idealistic.....

My understanding is there a plan to develop a plan... I'm not sure how much more can be said at this stage on these means.

 

[markppcli]

Satellite Based Moving Target Indicators, other space based assets.

Naval Strike Missile can hit land targets.

If we get Korean submarines then you can potentially add Hyunmoo 4-4 Ballistic missiles (500+km range). The Germans are offering torp tube launched NSM.

---

Software is weird. Systems like the Canadian Artillery system are quite good (Ukraine had some recommendations on how to improve it but generally they thought it was good), CMS 330 for the frigates is excellent and always being improved.

DRDC invented a flight deck management system + software that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world for a strictly Canadian problem. It works well enough.

Current shipboard ASW processing (again developed by DRDC) is friggin amazing.

OSI bridge management system is world recognized.

But most of these are cases where we either develop our own system internally to deal with a specific issue (DRNC involvement) or we go to an already recognized industrial leader to give us what they have (OSI).

I have been unimpressed with quite a few software systems that were offered... particularly Adobe!

Someone called fates good?

 

[Kirkhill]

Now if only we can build the software and data integration to go with all that capability.....

Can you integrate the organizations?

 

[ytz]

Can you integrate the organizations?

Can and should.

 

[ytz]

My understanding is there a plan to develop a plan... I'm not sure how much more can be said at this stage on these means.

I hope so. I'm waiting to see what CFD 2.0 at JFC can do.

 

[Kirkhill]

Can and should.

I wish you well.

 

[Ludoc]

My understanding is there a plan to develop a plan... I'm not sure how much more can be said at this stage on these means.

So, concepts of a plan?

 

[ytz]

My understanding is there a plan to develop a plan... I'm not sure how much more can be said at this stage on these means.

Few months back I sat in on a navy working group for Recognized Maritime Picture. I was really surprised to learn there is no navy equivalent of the CAOC. A lot of the discussion too really seemed to be regurgitating what the RCAF solved a long time ago. I left a note with organizer that they should just take a notebook and some TD to Winnipeg. Cut their work in half....

I'm always kinda surprised how little we learn from each other.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Someone called fates good?

Perhaps it's better than other stuff out there?

 

[Kirkhill]

There's one challenge here. A lot of this didn't start out with a coherent strategy. A bunch of disparate projects just happened to be coalescing to a more coherent capability stuff doctrine. I do wish there was actual discussion and thought on the doctrine so that the pieces could be made to fit together.

A bunch of staff weanies at the Maj/LCOL shouldn't be trying to make their projects fit by Teams chats, mess beers and PowerPoint. Maybe I'm too idealistic.....

How did the Ukrainians get to where they are so fast? My sense is that there has been a lot of patchwork by a bunch of keen individuals.

 

[GK .Dundas]

So, concepts of a plan?

More of a plan of a concept of a plan .

 

[Kirkhill]

Here's the AI answer for Kirkhill.... make of it what you may.

How did Ukraine develop its battlefield management system as quickly as it has +9

Ukraine developed its advanced battlefield management systems (like Delta and Kropyva) at unprecedented speeds by crowdsourcing tech from civilian volunteers and adopting an agile, open-architecture framework. Bypassing rigid military procurement, they decentralized development, utilized commercial cloud servers, and allowed frontline troops to dictate rapid software iterations.

Key Factors Driving the Speed of Innovation

Grassroots Origins: Systems like Delta didn't start in a top-down state laboratory; they were initiated by civil society organizations and volunteer tech groups like Aerorozvidka as early as 2015.

Commercial Cloud Integration: Instead of building and protecting vulnerable physical servers, the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense used commercial cloud infrastructure hosted abroad, ensuring resilience against physical and cyber attacks.

End-User Design & Agility: Developers worked directly with frontline operators. Tools like Kropyva were designed to operate on cheap, off-the-shelf Android tablets, instantly putting mapping and targeting software into the hands of artillery units.

Decentralized Bureaucracy: The Ukrainian government (notably the Ministry of Digital Transformation) acted as a platform provider. They provided open APIs and regulatory frameworks, allowing hundreds of separate tech teams and startups to compete and share data in real time.

Continuous Feedback Loops: Because the software acts like a "Google Maps for the battlefield," data from thousands of drones and intelligence sensors are uploaded in real time. This allowed software engineers to test, patch, and update AI models and user interfaces in mere days to counter evolving Russian tactics.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Few months back I sat in on a navy working group for Recognized Maritime Picture. I was really surprised to learn there is no navy equivalent of the CAOC. A lot of the discussion too really seemed to be regurgitating what the RCAF solved a long time ago. I left a note with organizer that they should just take a notebook and some TD to Winnipeg. Cut their work in half....

I'm always kinda surprised how little we learn from each other.

It's time for the adults to sit down around a table and start dealing with this stuff. It's about time for all three of our services ( yes I know supposedly we don't have three services...Hey don't tell me , tell them .) can no longer operate in a vacuum.