nowhere_man said:
It was not in the article. I thought it was in this or the the other Lebanon thread where (might have been CFRA) where a relative to the woman explained why she was in Lebanon for so long. At the time it made sense.
The Evacuation of Canadians from Lebanon Thread
- Thread starter twistidnick
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It was not in the article. I thought it was in this or the the other Lebanon thread where (might have been CFRA) where a relative to the woman explained why she was in Lebanon for so long. At the time it made sense.
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 410
My problem with all of this is that my tax dollars are being spent on this. Why shouldn't they have to pay something? Those who come back to Canada and have homes and jobs etc....fine, but what of those who have nothing here? On the news last night the Red Cross was looking for donations (cash) because many coming back hadn't been here in so many years and had no homes etc to go to. Who is going to pay for them?
i have been reading the Peter Worthington article and indeed a few others from the "Spotlight on Military News" - I see nothing wrong with duel citizenship - and indeed leaving the country and living elsewhere if need be. I live and work in Poland - my wife and my family are Polish and Canadian. Do I contribute to Canada? Damned right I do and did. I spent 44 years of my life in Canada - eleven years in the army, 3 years off and on prospecting, 3 years in forestry, 3 years wild life work - and a couple of years in developing a fruit industry in the Prairies. I've made a lot of people rich - and ate a lot of crap. Here I teach - and I act as an ambassador for the country that didn't do much for me - a better ambassador than those useless sods in the embassy in Warszawa. My salary - from holding down 4 jobs is about $900 Canadian a month - far less than welfare n'est-ce pas?. That I live overseas doesn't mean I am less a Canadian. I am and always will be - Worthington, the useless jerks who write for the national Post and indeed anyone who thinks different can all stuff themselves. It has been a tradition for Canucks to go elsewhere to make a contribution to this nation. Don't mistake being elsewhere for not being Canadian - I'm damned proud I'm a Canuck and I'm also damned proud to be a Pole too
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So JackD if you choose to live in Poland good on you. But if the brown stuff hit the rotary device, why should canadian taxpayers pay for you to leave?? Thats the big question. It was your choice to leave, so why should we be responsible for you?
This whole fiasco has me flabbergasted. I echo many of the opinions in this thread questioning why most of these Lebanese-Canadians have the right to emergency evacuation and why we, the daily taxpayers, must foot the bill for the tens of thousands of pseudo Canadians to return "home" (home? yeah right).
I would like to raise a thought that I don't remember reading in this thread yet, but that sledge has alluded to quite clearly. On top of the fact that these people (and I'm not lumping legitimate tourists or resident Canadians visiting family in this) seem to hold Canadian citizenship as a get-out-of-danger-zone-free card, why are they entitled to evacuation at the expense of resident Canadians when they went to Lebanon willingly and chose to stay there. Tensions in the area have been high for years. Breakout of conflict was always a strong possibility. Daily exposure to dangers such bombings is common knowledge. Yet, tens of thousands of "Canadians" choose to make Lebanon their full-time home. Now that the crap has hit the fan they have the "right" to be evacuated, and seemingly it had better be in style or the government (oh excuse me, just PM Harper, apparently) risk further ire.
All that being said, I disagree with opinions such as Worthington's that dual citizenship should be disallowed. I do believe there should be strong restrictions on it, but ditching dual citizenship privileges completely would be unfortunate. I don't have any answers other than to say that yes, I think there should be graduated privileges. And no, I do not hold dual citizenship.
Grammar edit.
I would like to raise a thought that I don't remember reading in this thread yet, but that sledge has alluded to quite clearly. On top of the fact that these people (and I'm not lumping legitimate tourists or resident Canadians visiting family in this) seem to hold Canadian citizenship as a get-out-of-danger-zone-free card, why are they entitled to evacuation at the expense of resident Canadians when they went to Lebanon willingly and chose to stay there. Tensions in the area have been high for years. Breakout of conflict was always a strong possibility. Daily exposure to dangers such bombings is common knowledge. Yet, tens of thousands of "Canadians" choose to make Lebanon their full-time home. Now that the crap has hit the fan they have the "right" to be evacuated, and seemingly it had better be in style or the government (oh excuse me, just PM Harper, apparently) risk further ire.
All that being said, I disagree with opinions such as Worthington's that dual citizenship should be disallowed. I do believe there should be strong restrictions on it, but ditching dual citizenship privileges completely would be unfortunate. I don't have any answers other than to say that yes, I think there should be graduated privileges. And no, I do not hold dual citizenship.
Grammar edit.
- Reaction score
- 1,517
- Points
- 1,040
I am of the opinion that ANY person who holds a valid Canadian Passport should be evacuated. Full stop.
Having said that, those ingrates complaining about conditions and stating that they would rather have waited, I only say this: "Fine. Back of the line. HMCS Imagination will be along shortly, and the Captain has generously agreed to allow you full access to his cabin."
I also believe I heard one young person on the radio stating that his heart is with Hezbollah. I say fine, send his heart back to Hezbollah, and we'll keep the rest of him here.
In Prison.
Having said that, those ingrates complaining about conditions and stating that they would rather have waited, I only say this: "Fine. Back of the line. HMCS Imagination will be along shortly, and the Captain has generously agreed to allow you full access to his cabin."
I also believe I heard one young person on the radio stating that his heart is with Hezbollah. I say fine, send his heart back to Hezbollah, and we'll keep the rest of him here.
In Prison.
In reply to the Sledge - would I expect to be rescued - no damn way. no one risks the life for me - no damned way would I have that - nor would I have any one foot the bill for me - but if the manure hits the fan and I had to get my wife and daughter out of here - yes - is there something wrong with that - I'll pay their way - but I expect that they be allowed back in Canada - Canada's reputation would have been a bit better had that been the policy with Jews and various other peoples prior to the Second World War wouldn't it? You see I have obligations both as being nationalised Polish and being Canadian. Canadians do not cut and run - remember what I said. I am known as being Canadian - I have an image to uphold and being one does not exclude the other - and if it means anything i doubt I'll ever get back to Canada - but i keep a vial of Saskatchewan dirt to be sprinkled on my grave.
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von Garvin said:
"And if you don't like the beer, go home." My sentiments exactly! Just be glad that there were folks around to put their lives on the line so you could get out of a sticky situation. I have absolutely NO sympathy those who look a gift horse in the mouth and cry about it.
I believe sympathy is found in the dictionary between sh*t and syphylis. My 16 year old knows, he looked it up.
FormerHorseGuard
Sr. Member
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i was in the USA after 9/11 and no one offered to come get me and bring me home. I am born, raised, ex service person and a proud Canadian, married and since divorced an American. I woud not expect the Canadian government to resuce me from any where in the world I choose to live after leaving Canada, then complain out loud how slow or how bad the trip was.
I think if you are Canadian, you should have any right to dual passports, dual citizenship and realize you are a Canadian first and foremost.
My background is Scottish, Welsh, German,Irish and Canadian. I consider myself Canadian and nothing else. If you want to live in your homeland and claim to be a Canadian when it is convient do not complain how slow and how unprepared the goverment that you do not pay taxes to, or choose not to live here full time, you do not have a say in how things are done to protect you and save you.
I have a family friend who left China and when and if he leaves Canada, and visits his former homeland , he knows full well the Canadian Passport is no protection once he lands on China's soil because they will consider him to have broken their law. You enter a country that is unsafe as those in the middle east, you should be told up front, we will not protect you because you know and Canadian Government knows that it is a powder keg waiting to blow. Enter at own risk should be stamped on passports when leaving.
I think the full time residents of the country whould be the last to be taken out because they choose to be there and not live in Canada.
Complainers should be put to the end of the line and left there.
I heard one lady on the news say something to the effect if she knew how rough the trip would of been she would stayed in her house and would of felt safer with the bombs falling because it took longer then she thought it should to leave.
BOO HOO suck it up lady you got out and did not ahve to pay or risk your life at some border point.
I think if you are Canadian, you should have any right to dual passports, dual citizenship and realize you are a Canadian first and foremost.
My background is Scottish, Welsh, German,Irish and Canadian. I consider myself Canadian and nothing else. If you want to live in your homeland and claim to be a Canadian when it is convient do not complain how slow and how unprepared the goverment that you do not pay taxes to, or choose not to live here full time, you do not have a say in how things are done to protect you and save you.
I have a family friend who left China and when and if he leaves Canada, and visits his former homeland , he knows full well the Canadian Passport is no protection once he lands on China's soil because they will consider him to have broken their law. You enter a country that is unsafe as those in the middle east, you should be told up front, we will not protect you because you know and Canadian Government knows that it is a powder keg waiting to blow. Enter at own risk should be stamped on passports when leaving.
I think the full time residents of the country whould be the last to be taken out because they choose to be there and not live in Canada.
Complainers should be put to the end of the line and left there.
I heard one lady on the news say something to the effect if she knew how rough the trip would of been she would stayed in her house and would of felt safer with the bombs falling because it took longer then she thought it should to leave.
BOO HOO suck it up lady you got out and did not ahve to pay or risk your life at some border point.
- Reaction score
- 1,517
- Points
- 1,040
I am Canadian, and my heritage is mostly Irish. I am, however, a Germanophile. I lived there as an exchange student for a year (I was 16, it rocked!), I have a degree in German language and literature, and I just love the people/country. In the world cup, when Germany was playing whomever, I was going for the Germans. One exception: should Germany had ever played Canada, my team would MOST DEFINATELY been 
Hands down.
No discussion.
Canada Number 1.
Germany "Number 10" (to use the old Vietnam era slang)
So, though my "ties" to Germany are a product of my experiences, my heart belongs to, and always will be with
People with dual citizenship? No Problem. Divided loyalties? That I can understand. Calling down one of your "homelands" is unacceptable. These people should cry, yes cry for what's happening in Lebanon, but also I feel they should be grateful that their adoptive homeland has gone well out of its way to get them out of harm's way.
Hands down.
No discussion.
Canada Number 1.
Germany "Number 10" (to use the old Vietnam era slang)
So, though my "ties" to Germany are a product of my experiences, my heart belongs to, and always will be with
People with dual citizenship? No Problem. Divided loyalties? That I can understand. Calling down one of your "homelands" is unacceptable. These people should cry, yes cry for what's happening in Lebanon, but also I feel they should be grateful that their adoptive homeland has gone well out of its way to get them out of harm's way.
- Reaction score
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Just my further $0.02....
I've always been bothered by the "hypenated-Canadian" as too often it appears as though the culture of origin takes precedence over the culture of Canada as a whole. What this event did was highlight the extreme polarity of this issue.
I have no problem with a hyphenated-Canadian who is 75%+ Canadian with some loyalty to their nation of origin, but when you have so-called citizens (and I think this is truly worthy of debate) who have decided they are residents of foreign countries whose loyalty overwelmingly is NOT with Canada, except when they need free health care to have expensive procedures like childbirth or cancer treatments, then I think we have a serious problem.
As a further note, I believe that the British system that made Canada wealthy, strong and a place where people want to immigrate to all but ignored in our PC world, as the "tolerance"/"multicultural" mantra becomes dominant, although not enough people are considering the implications of that transition (Sharia Law, self-created firewalls around specific religious groups that make integration impossible and cultures who embrace marijuana and crime over education or think that welfare is satisfactory lifestyle choice stand out).
Bottom Line: I think we're looking at the tip of the iceburg of a larger national debate on where our country needs to go forward and I think it will be very interesting to see how that plays out over the next 5-10 years.
Matthew.
P.S. For those who haven't read "The World is Flat" by Thomas Friedman, I highly recommend it.....
I've always been bothered by the "hypenated-Canadian" as too often it appears as though the culture of origin takes precedence over the culture of Canada as a whole. What this event did was highlight the extreme polarity of this issue.
I have no problem with a hyphenated-Canadian who is 75%+ Canadian with some loyalty to their nation of origin, but when you have so-called citizens (and I think this is truly worthy of debate) who have decided they are residents of foreign countries whose loyalty overwelmingly is NOT with Canada, except when they need free health care to have expensive procedures like childbirth or cancer treatments, then I think we have a serious problem.
As a further note, I believe that the British system that made Canada wealthy, strong and a place where people want to immigrate to all but ignored in our PC world, as the "tolerance"/"multicultural" mantra becomes dominant, although not enough people are considering the implications of that transition (Sharia Law, self-created firewalls around specific religious groups that make integration impossible and cultures who embrace marijuana and crime over education or think that welfare is satisfactory lifestyle choice stand out).
Bottom Line: I think we're looking at the tip of the iceburg of a larger national debate on where our country needs to go forward and I think it will be very interesting to see how that plays out over the next 5-10 years.
Matthew.
P.S. For those who haven't read "The World is Flat" by Thomas Friedman, I highly recommend it.....
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
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There are many questions to ask about this 'event'. We have asked many about Duel Citizenship, residency, etc. and in the most cases we are generalizing in our comments. We all are stating opinions, and at the same time not mentioning that we also know of exceptions to those opinions expressed.
We have had some of these evacuees arrested as soon as they have stepped off the plane, as they were fugitives of the Law. This just points to the fact that some of our 'Bureaucrats' are doing their jobs and doing those jobs efficiently.
I have also noticed that some of these evacuees can not speak English or French. I know that we have many in Canada who live in their 'ghettos' who can not speak English or French, but the point is: They live in Canada. What is going on when we have people coming in as evacuees on Canadian Passports, who have lived in a foreign land for over twenty years, can't speak one or the other of our Official Languages, and have no place of residence in Canada? These people are being put up, at Government expense, in hotels in Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal. This points to a serious problem which backs up comments of "Passports of Convenience".
We have had some of these evacuees arrested as soon as they have stepped off the plane, as they were fugitives of the Law. This just points to the fact that some of our 'Bureaucrats' are doing their jobs and doing those jobs efficiently.
I have also noticed that some of these evacuees can not speak English or French. I know that we have many in Canada who live in their 'ghettos' who can not speak English or French, but the point is: They live in Canada. What is going on when we have people coming in as evacuees on Canadian Passports, who have lived in a foreign land for over twenty years, can't speak one or the other of our Official Languages, and have no place of residence in Canada? These people are being put up, at Government expense, in hotels in Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal. This points to a serious problem which backs up comments of "Passports of Convenience".
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FormerHorseGuard said:
We were also living in the USA on 9/11 and even though we were posted down there with NATO, we were told that we would be given ample notice to leave on our own if there was a threat made to the base or surrounding bases.
Nobody was offering to take us out on their dime, and our spouses were to remain there indefinitely.
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Couldn't agree more, and it is going to be a very, very interesting discussion.
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I happen to of African descent and born and raised in the West Indies (a beautiful little island named St. Kitts as a matter of fact). I have absolutely no problem with people migrating to Canada, USA, Gt. Britain, Netherlands etc. to seek better opportunities or to live in a peaceful and stable society (or to pursue their dream of joining a first class western military). What I do have a problem with is people who migrate from a country to seek refuge in another and then openly support terrorist organisations while living in the country that shelters them.
If those people driving around shouting Hezbollah slogans and calling for the annihilation of Israel feel that way, THEN WHY THE FUCK DON'T THEY GO BACK TO LEBANON AND FIGHT FOR HEZBOLLAH!!! 
If those people driving around shouting Hezbollah slogans and calling for the annihilation of Israel feel that way, THEN WHY THE FUCK DON'T THEY GO BACK TO LEBANON AND FIGHT FOR HEZBOLLAH!!!
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cameron said:I happen to of African descent and born and raised in the West Indies (a beautiful little island named St. Kitts as a matter of fact). I have absolutely no problem with people migrating to Canada, USA, Gt. Britain, Netherlands etc. to seek better opportunities or to live in a peaceful and stable society (or to pursue their dream of joining a first class western military). What I do have a problem with is people who migrate from a country to seek refuge in another and then openly support terrorist organisations while living in the country that shelters them.
If those people driving around shouting Hezbollah slogans and calling for the annihilation of Israel feel that way, THEN WHY THE frig DON'T THEY GO BACK TO LEBANON AND FIGHT FOR HEZBOLLAH!!!
Preach it! You got my vote!
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cameron said:I happen to of African descent and born and raised in the West Indies (a beautiful little island named St. Kitts as a matter of fact). I have absolutely no problem with people migrating to Canada, USA, Gt. Britain, Netherlands etc. to seek better opportunities or to live in a peaceful and stable society (or to pursue their dream of joining a first class western military). What I do have a problem with is people who migrate from a country to seek refuge in another and then openly support terrorist organisations while living in the country that shelters them.
If those people driving around shouting Hezbollah slogans and calling for the annihilation of Israel feel that way, THEN WHY THE FUCK DON'T THEY GO BACK TO LEBANON AND FIGHT FOR HEZBOLLAH!!!
Not so politically correct, but I like it. Well said!
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