The Fifth Generation Air Force

[Quirky]

Plugged from the other thread.

What about a similar base in Alaska? Much different?

I would guess USAF security forces have way more people to choose from, plus their versions of postings don't last a decade in one spot. My guess. I'd take 2-3 years at a Fairbanks knowing my next assignment is somewhere warm like a California or Florida. Maybe these new trades will have postings/rotations that are more frequent so you're not stagnant. Then again not everyone from the 1200 can be in Comox.....

 

[FJAG]

With the RCN and Army both also acquiring equipment that will need military security forces, maybe this could be a purple trade. We could call them the Provost Corps.

Only if its a three-stage training program - soldier first - then security - and finally, for the rare few; police.

The ratio of cops per population in Canada is 1 in 184.

The ratio of RegF MPs to total RegF is, apparently, 1,316 of 68,000 or 1 in 52. (according to DND websites) By that estimate you could free 6-700 for pure security duties right now.

(interestingly the ratio of RegF lawyers in the CAF is almost identical to the civilian lawyer ratio at 1 in 400.)

Fun with numbers.

 

[SupersonicMax]

The RCAF has been snoozing on security for years.

And if you want to talk snoozing, look at the CID history of the Tactical Control Radar project...

The CAF has been snoozing on security for years. The WASF model was deemed unsustainable for years. But were told that you need to do it out of hide….

The opportunity came to create a professional security force without sacrificing other capabilities and only the RCAF took it.

 

[dapaterson]

It wasn’t the CAF/RCAF deciding that Thales was to be paid out after it exchanged its originally-bid candidate system with its Ground master 400 radar that was non-compliant, even when everybody (including TB/TBS and then PWGSC) knew that the LM TPS-77 was the cheapest, lowest-cost compliant system.

Focusing only on that ignores the preceding decade and a half of being the living embodiment of every lesson recorded but not learned.

 

[dapaterson]

The CAF has been snoozing on security for years. The WASF model was deemed unsustainable for years. But were told that you need to do it out of hide….

The opportunity came to create a professional security force without sacrificing other capabilities and only the RCAF took it.

Any future CAF force expansion above currently authorized levels will hopefully address the inadequate IT&E system, ensure the viability of the BTL/SUTL, and all the other unsexy foundational things that have been ignored for years.

Unfortunately, growth permits continued stagnation and protection of irrelevant units / capabilities; I can think of 431 things the RCAF should divest.

 

[Good2Golf]

Focusing only on that ignores the preceding decade and a half of being the living embodiment of every lesson recorded but not learned.

Not sure how “only that” characterizes specific actions that reinforce visibility on the wider and more expansively systemic issues with Canadian procurement. So it’s ’the Sub-Departmental group had behaved thusly so we’ll ignore the centre and key department’s very questionable (policy, regulations….law? What is the SACC Manual?) handling of but one failed procurement.

And specifically with regard to TCR, by the refs it could actually have been dealt with as Vote 1 O&M eqpt repaired of out of production components with current components (far more innocuous than the very questionable ‘but more legacy Hornets’ that GoC/TB/PWGSC laid down on DND/CAF/RCAF.

You won’t convince me in a thousand Sundays that the Four Corners were and remain as pure as the driven white snow. CAF/element/brach perceived fuckery just was never dealt with fully by the supposed responsible adults overseeing things.

 

[dapaterson]

Not sure how “only that” characterizes specific actions that reinforce visibility on the wider and more expansively systemic issues with Canadian procurement. So it’s ’the Sub-Departmental group had behaved thusly so we’ll ignore the centre and key department’s very questionable (policy, regulations….law? What is the SACC Manual?) handling of but one failed procurement.

And specifically with regard to TCR, by the refs it could actually have been dealt with as Vote 1 O&M eqpt repaired of out of production components with current components (far more innocuous than the very questionable ‘but more legacy Hornets’ that GoC/TB/PWGSC laid down on DND/CAF/RCAF.

You won’t convince me in a thousand Sundays that the Four Corners were and remain as pure as the driven white snow. CAF/element/brach perceived fuckery just was never dealt with fully by the supposed responsible adults overseeing things.

I think we're in violent agreement that there's oceans of fuckery, malice, and just plain run of the mill incompetence throughout the TCR project history.

On the plus side, it's spread very nicely among all the players.

 

[Kirkhill]

The RCAF decides it must have a security force.
In a Joint Force one might assume that the poor bugger on stag with a rifle at 76N under the midday stars is an infanteer.
In a Joint force one might assume that the folks manning the C-UAS/LAA/SHORAD systems are gunners.
Gunners might even be responsible for long range rockets, in a Joint Force.
But neither the infantry want nor the gunners want the jobs either so the RCAF does it itself.

The Army and the Navy want an assist from flying machines.
The Joint Force decrees that those are RCAF machines.
The RCAF supplies all flying machines.
But not those ones.
Not the ones the Army and Navy want.
I suppose we should be grateful for the advent of small flying machines that the RCAF doesn't want.
The Army and the Navy can do at least some of the jobs themselves.

The Army needs a lift from the RCAF and the RCN.
But neither the RCAF nor the RCN want to supply it.

The Regular Army practices for its war.
And keeps hoping that its war will show up some day.

The Reserve Army knows that it can fight the Regs' war two weeks a year and on Wednesday nights during the school year.

The Government pays all these people who aren't talking to each other and employs them to do everything but fight the Regs' war.

And the people pay their taxes to the Government in the belief that they can saely make their own decisions without foreign interference.

...

I guess we need to convene another Royal Commission, unless that is too triggering.

 

[ytz]

With the RCN and Army both also acquiring equipment that will need military security forces, maybe this could be a purple trade. We could call them the Provost Corps.

The Air Force has been barking up the security tree for years and no one listened. We designed something for our need. It shouldn’t go purple. You snooze, you lose.

Realistically, they'll expand to cover more than just air bases as they grow. They are already planning on using them on critical bases like naval radio stations (which also house our space ground stations).

Or “Security Branch”…

It's literally called "Security Force".

 

[markppcli]

With the RCN and Army both also acquiring equipment that will need military security forces, maybe this could be a purple trade. We could call them the Provost Corps.

The RCN used to have armed security at the front gates, they have trades that can port over fairly well. So does the army.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Plugged from the other thread.



I would guess USAF security forces have way more people to choose from, plus their versions of postings don't last a decade in one spot. My guess. I'd take 2-3 years at a Fairbanks knowing my next assignment is somewhere warm like a California or Florida. Maybe these new trades will have postings/rotations that are more frequent so you're not stagnant. Then again not everyone from the 1200 can be in Comox.....

Understand, but this is Canada, do we even have ‘warm’ postings here?
Hopefully greater depth in trained personnel going forward will result in shorter duration in less than optimal locations.

 

[ytz]

The opportunity came to create a professional security force without sacrificing other capabilities and only the RCAF took it.

Yep. And there's more coming. I said it elsewhere. Those branches and services that had their ducks in a row when the spigot opened are best positioned to take advantage. And this is just one example. All credit to LGen Kenney for positioning us well for this.

 

[Kirkhill]

Yep. And there's more coming. I said it elsewhere. Those branches and services that had their ducks in a row when the spigot opened are best positioned to take advantage. And this is just one example. All credit to LGen Kenney for positioning us well for this.

The Luftwaffe used to have its own infantry too...

Any thoughts?

 

[RangerRay]

It's literally called "Security Force".

I was thinking of the former name of these guys: