The Gagetown Thread- Merged

[jtojtheno]

What exactly is a restricted posting? My husband is supposed to begin a "restricted Posting" next month in Kingston for ATIS training.  He'll be there for 9 months at least and we were told that the restrictions should be lifted no problem. But we have no clue what it means in the first place, and the clerks in St. Jean are giving us no answers. They even got him into Trouble when I emailed the MFRC in Kingston to try and get some answers. 

 

[PMedMoe]

Usually, a restricted posting is one in which the member is not authorized to move his D, HG&E (Dependents, Household Goods & Effects).  Whether or not they lift the restriction for a nine-month course is up to the powers that be.  From what I understand, usually the posting has to be at least a year.  Where does he go after his nine months in Kingston?

 

[jtojtheno]

Well, we were told (by a CPl in St. Jean) that he goes to Borden for another 9 months after Kingston. We are not sure what to believe though, because a clerk had previously told him that he would be in Kingston for about 2 years.  So at this point, we don't really know for sure. We've been told 2 different things about almost everything since day 1.  I do not trust anyone at St. Jean at this point, because everything he's been told has been incorrect and we he has lost almost 6 grand this far because of it.  What is the purpose of a restricted posting?  He is going for ATIS, and it does state on the CF website that the family will be moved if the training exceeds 5 months, so why would this posting be any different?  My family lives in Kingston, so we were excited to find out he'd be going there.  I was told that the restrictions will probably be lifted because of the length of his course, but I've been told a lot of things by St. Jean that weren't true.

 

[George Wallace]

Well, we were told (by a CPl in St. Jean) that he goes to Borden for another 9 months after Kingston. We are not sure what to believe though, because a clerk had previously told him that he would be in Kingston for about 2 years.  So at this point, we don't really know for sure. We've been told 2 different things about almost everything since day 1.  I do not trust anyone at St. Jean at this point, because everything he's been told has been incorrect and we he has lost almost 6 grand this far because of it.  What is the purpose of a restricted posting?  He is going for ATIS, and it does state on the CF website that the family will be moved if the training exceeds 5 months, so why would this posting be any different?  My family lives in Kingston, so we were excited to find out he'd be going there.  I was told that the restrictions will probably be lifted because of the length of his course, but I've been told a lot of things by St. Jean that weren't true.

Do you seriously think that the CF will move the families of every person who passes through St Jean in a year to their next School of Instruction for a period of 5 months?  If you are watching the news at all, ponder what the Press would say at the hundreds of billions of dollars that DND would have to spend to keep some Privates happy and have their spouses come live with them on two or three postings in their first year.  Do you have any idea of how much it costs to move a family?  Now move them again in five months.  Now do that for several hundred families of Privates graduating from St Jean.  I guess those families of currently serving members will be happy to know that they have also added to the hundreds of billions of dollars that DND does not have, when they get posted as well.  Shake your head.  Do you hear anything?

 

[PMedMoe]

He is going for ATIS, and it does state on the CF website that the family will be moved if the training exceeds 5 months, so why would this posting be any different?

I don't see that on the CF website.  What I do see is:

On completion of the BMQ, Aerospace Telecommunications and Information Systems Technicians attend Basic Military Occupational Qualification (BOQ) Training at the Canadian
Forces School of Communications and Electronics (CFSCE) at CFB Kingston, Ontario. The first portion of BOQ training is the Performance Oriented Electronics Training (POET), which takes 28 weeks

and

The second portion of BOQ training is the ATIS Tech apprentice level 3 training coordinated by CFSTG and thought at CFSCE at CFB Kingston, Ontario. Training takes approximately 20 weeks

So I see a total of 48 weeks in Kingston for training only.  That does not take into account the time he may wait for his courses.  I don't see any training in Borden, but the site may not be up to date.

 

[jtojtheno]

Obviously I know that they can't move every family for a posting of 5 months. But we were also told by 2 different clerks that his Kingston posting would work out to about 2 years.  We have a 2 month old daughter that he's seen twice and missed the birth of.  Only last week were we told that he would only be in Kingston for 9 months, then to Borden. I do not understand that, since it does say the total of 48 weeks on the website.  We know he goes right to Kingston the day after he graduates, however we don't know the official start date of his course at this time.  The Cpl who told me he goes to Borden after Kingston also said he will then go BACK to Kingston.  I will believe ANY of this when it actually happens, because nothing we've been told this far has happened. We are still trying to get his pay straightened out as far as R&Q.  He is still being charged for both even though they have proof of our daughter's birth.  We are now on his benefits but he still pays for these things.. how does that make sense?

I told the Cpl I spoke with that I want to move to Kingston regardless of whether they help us move, and I was told I am not allowed to do that.  So if they wont move us, we can't do it on our own (she says this will void us of ever getting help from cf to move), and he will continue to not see his daughter.  That is BS as far as I'm concerned, and I will be moving to Kingston regardless. If I it was just me, I wouldn't care so much, but he needs to be bonding with his daughter.  9 months is too long to not see her. 

And please explain to me how it is fair to be so rude to someone who is obviously new to the life of the military and only looking for some support. Maybe you should give YOUR head a shake. or just get off of the forums that are supposed to be there to help people with concerns, not to make them more anxious about what's going on. I was simply stating what is on the site, and if something is likely not to happen, then it should not be posted in writing so that families can get their hopes up. 

And I didn't find the info for being moved under the trade description (obviously), I found it under Relocation Benefits, back when he was first accepted. It is something like 25 weeks course length before a family can be moved.  If this is something is not likely to happen, and people like me who are inquiring about are going to be REAMED into, then it's something that should not be suggested in the first place. 

 

[TimBit]

Do you seriously think that the CF will move the families of every person who passes through St Jean in a year to their next School of Instruction for a period of 5 months?  If you are watching the news at all, ponder what the Press would say at the hundreds of billions of dollars that DND would have to spend to keep some Privates happy and have their spouses come live with them on two or three postings in their first year.  Do you have any idea of how much it costs to move a family?  Now move them again in five months.  Now do that for several hundred families of Privates graduating from St Jean.  I guess those families of currently serving members will be happy to know that they have also added to the hundreds of billions of dollars that DND does not have, when they get posted as well.  Shake your head.  Do you hear anything?

George: you are rude. I don't know about your family situation, or if you have one, or what your rank is and if you have subordinates in your current job. But if you do have subordinates, and you talk to them this way when they seek clarification, or talk to their spouses that way when they are concerned about their young children, then I think you are rude and not helpful. There. I said it.

Of course the CF won't pay for everyone's move every five months. Slightly different in the case of a two-year course. And hinting that someone has no brain ? (shake your head - do you hear anything - what else could you mean?) It's just sad.

 

[aesop081]

jtojtheno,

I understand you are a bit anxious but try to relax a little. It easy for someone in your situation to read something and get spun up because they dont have the context to put it in. His posting is restricted as it should be, but like most people in his situation, this will change once, and only once, he arrives in Kingston and reports to work and his course dates are clarified by the training establishment he belongs to.

 

[jtojtheno]

Yes, that is what we've been told, I was initially just wondering what exactly a restricted posting is, because all they told him him was that it's restricted, and didn't explain at all what that means. 

 

[kratz]

Moves paid for under government regulations are not inexpensive. Every more had too many factors to mention here, but our last move easily cost the government over $8000 total (moving company, getting us here, cleaning, food, misc expenses). Not to mention the related costs to the military regarding the move.

This is a large factor why his course messages currently read, restricted posting. In part, it is a cost saving measure. If he does not pass his course, who will be responsible to pay/repay the costs to move again?

It is easy to be overwhelmed with information when you are new to the military. Before lashing out or getting upset, take a moment, go for a walk ect...take some time to look at all angles and not just the most obvious one.

The best advice you have been offered so far, is that if you chose to move yourself now, on your own, your husband's move benefits will be affect the next time he is entitled to a paid move.

 

[meni0n]

As per CFIRP manual section 1.4, a restricted move is defined as:

A move to a place of duty to which the Department considers it desirable, or in the public interest, to restrict the move of dependants or Household Goods and Effects or both, until suitable accommodation becomes available.

Link:

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pd/rel-rei/aps-paa-2009/index-eng.asp

 

[armyvern]

Obviously I know that they can't move every family for a posting of 5 months. But we were also told by 2 different clerks that his Kingston posting would work out to about 2 years.  We have a 2 month old daughter that he's seen twice and missed the birth of.  Only last week were we told that he would only be in Kingston for 9 months, then to Borden. I do not understand that, since it does say the total of 48 weeks on the website.  We know he goes right to Kingston the day after he graduates, however we don't know the official start date of his course at this time.  The Cpl who told me he goes to Borden after Kingston also said he will then go BACK to Kingston.  I will believe ANY of this when it actually happens, because nothing we've been told this far has happened. We are still trying to get his pay straightened out as far as R&Q.  He is still being charged for both even though they have proof of our daughter's birth.  We are now on his benefits but he still pays for these things.. how does that make sense?

I told the Cpl I spoke with that I want to move to Kingston regardless of whether they help us move, and I was told I am not allowed to do that.  So if they wont move us, we can't do it on our own (she says this will void us of ever getting help from cf to move), and he will continue to not see his daughter.  That is BS as far as I'm concerned, and I will be moving to Kingston regardless. If I it was just me, I wouldn't care so much, but he needs to be bonding with his daughter.  9 months is too long to not see her. 

And please explain to me how it is fair to be so rude to someone who is obviously new to the life of the military and only looking for some support. Maybe you should give YOUR head a shake. or just get off of the forums that are supposed to be there to help people with concerns, not to make them more anxious about what's going on. I was simply stating what is on the site, and if something is likely not to happen, then it should not be posted in writing so that families can get their hopes up. 

And I didn't find the info for being moved under the trade description (obviously), I found it under Relocation Benefits, back when he was first accepted. It is something like 25 weeks course length before a family can be moved.  If this is something is not likely to happen, and people like me who are inquiring about are going to be REAMED into, then it's something that should not be suggested in the first place.

STOP!!

If you had this tone and attitude when you spoke with the MFRC in Kingston ... I can only guess as to why his CoC in Saint Jean found out about it. Not.

1)  Read the earlier post that states that move of familes with the member is dependant upon whether or not the course last 1 year or more;

2)  Read the post by Moe in which she relates to you the two training periods required for your husband's new MOC qualification (ie: 48 weeks!!);

3) Now, read the other post that states that your husband's restriction will NOT be lifted until he reports to Kingston to the Training establishment that will "own" him.

Understand that NO ONE except Kingston is going to lift his restriction, nor is anyone - especially the taxpayer - going to pay to move you until that restriction is lifted. If your husband's courses are running back to back and starting immediately ... that equals 48 weeks, thus no paid move for you. However, if he has to await training to start, or there is a break between his two training portions, that puts it over 1 year long, AS DETERMINED when he gets TO Kingston and they confirm his loading dates/schedule, THEN they may lift his restriction and move his DF&E there provided he has secured accomodations for yourself/children and can receive his furniture and effects into his possession.

You see, there are a lot of "IFs" in the scenario. Every single circumstance is entirely dependant upon his future timetable and individual situations. There is NO "one" answer that the clerk failed to provide your spouse. He probably got different answers from pers who were in different circumstances than he is or whose courses ran back to back or without breaks - or some whose courses were delayed and thus put them over the year benchmark. Simply put, there is no ONE answer. You have to wait until he gets to Kingston, just like everyone else does.

If you choose to move before the restriction is lifted, be prepared to pay for it out of your own pockets.

Oh PS: I just did a 10.5 month long course away from my family and living in the shacks ... because my posting was "restricted" too.

 

[PMedMoe]

If I were the clerk, I would not be speaking to a member's spouse anyway.  It is up to the member to be asking for this information.........when he gets to Kingston.

 

[armyvern]

If I were the clerk, I would not be speaking to a member's spouse anyway.  It is up to the member to be asking for this information.........when he gets to Kingston.

I'd rather not repeat what I said to the spouse who accompanied her husband into clothing stores Gagetown one day to "babysit" him as he exchanged kit. I kicked out after she wouldn't zip it long enough for him to answer the questions ... she seemed to know all the answers.

In any case, I'm quite sure this member was advised correctly by the clerk in Saint Jean who probably gave him a few of the possible scenarios too.  Then, someone else said "but I got to move mine!!" (only because their courses didn't run back to back and were over the year etc etc) so everyone thinks someone is lying to them.

 

[jtojtheno]

I had that tone only because I was REAMED into for my original post, everyone seem to think that my question is whether or not they will PAY for my move. I honestly don't give a crap if they do or not. I'm moving to be with my family and so that we can be together.  If this screws up a future move, so be it, I'm not making my children suffer for up to 2 years because the military says so.  If they don't want to move us, fine. I already have a place lined up, and I will be moving by September first regardless, so that my 7 year old does not have to switch schools partway through the year.  If the posting was shorter and / or there weren't children involved I wouldn't even care to move at all.  I don't understand why I am being reamed into, however. If you will look at my posts , I am not looking to be moved on the military's dollar. I just wanted an answer about restricted postings. Because I didn't know what it meant. Also, if you read my posts, you will see that I never said I spoke to a clerk. I spoke with 2 different CPls.  No clerk.  Anything referenced to what a clerk said, would have been what he was told and relayed to me. I also stated that I know the restrictions MAY be lifted, and I am fine with that. I only wanted to know what exactly a restricted posting was. And that was answered for me, so why everyone seems to be attacking me for "thinking" I will be moved is a little confusing.  I am not calling anyone a liar, just saying that every time we ask, we get a different answer, which I know is very common, because everyone's situation is different.  I'm not going to go by info from anyone other than the base in Kingston once he gets there.  They will let us know what will happen, and that's all that matters. Not anyone else's experience.

 

[George Wallace]

jtojtheno

You may be advised to rethink your actions, as your actions will reflect on your husband's career and perhaps cause his Release as an Administrative Burden/Problem.  You are not the first spouse you has taken too active a role in a member's career, and be warned, it usually ends with a job Termination.  Theirs, not yours.

 

[kratz]

jtojtheno,

Ask husband about being reamed. You have posted comments on an unofficial site asking questions. Very experienced people have been willing to answer your questions and in some ways using 'kid gloves'.

You were provided more information than your post because your post was not specific enough. If all you wanted to know was what "restricted posting" means. A simple goolge search would have answered your query. Posting the same question here would have provided much the same (with links).

 

[PMedMoe]

Okay, take a deep breath......

I apologize for inferring that you spoke to a clerk.  Who were the Cpls you spoke to then?  Regardless of trade, I would not be speaking to a member's spouse without the member present.  I didn't do it in any of my trades.

Now, regarding the posting, I can understand why you want your family to be moved to be with your spouse.  We've gone from 20 weeks to 48 weeks to two years here.  Not quite sure how that happened.    ???

Your absolute best bet is to wait until he is in Kingston where they will decide whether or not they will lift the restriction.  They may lift it, if he will be there for over a year.  If he goes to Kingston, then to Borden, then back to Kingston, they may post you to Kingston only and he will go on TD or attached posting to Borden.  At any rate, it is up to him to submit the request.

Don't forget, this is only the beginning of his career.  You should be prepared for other separations during his time in the CF.

 

[armyvern]

I had that tone only because I was REAMED into for my original post, everyone seem to think that my question is whether or not they will PAY for my move. I honestly don't give a crap if they do or not. I'm moving to be with my family and so that we can be together.  If this screws up a future move, so be it, I'm not making my children suffer for up to 2 years because the military says so.  If they don't want to move us, fine. I already have a place lined up, and I will be moving by September first regardless, so that my 7 year old does not have to switch schools partway through the year.  If the posting was shorter and / or there weren't children involved I wouldn't even care to move at all.  I don't understand why I am being reamed into, however. If you will look at my posts , I am not looking to be moved on the military's dollar. I just wanted an answer about restricted postings. Because I didn't know what it meant. Also, if you read my posts, you will see that I never said I spoke to a clerk. I spoke with 2 different CPls.  No clerk.  Anything referenced to what a clerk said, would have been what he was told and relayed to me. I also stated that I know the restrictions MAY be lifted, and I am fine with that. I only wanted to know what exactly a restricted posting was. And that was answered for me, so why everyone seems to be attacking me for "thinking" I will be moved is a little confusing.  I am not calling anyone a liar, just saying that every time we ask, we get a different answer, which I know is very common, because everyone's situation is different.  I'm not going to go by info from anyone other than the base in Kingston once he gets there.  They will let us know what will happen, and that's all that matters. Not anyone else's experience.

Interesting. My move stayed restricted, and thus I lived in the shacks for 10.5 months, exactly BECAUSE of my children too.

I have 4. For me, getting posted from location X to location Y for 10.5 months with all of them having to switch schools sucked ... especially knowing that in one more year after my course was done (I finished it early as it turns out) that they'd have to pick up and move yet again to location Z and their third school in two years.

No thanks. I opted for my best option ... their stability in not moving twice in a year and a half and having to go through all the requisite turmoil associated with the psychological aspects of those moves and severing old friends and having to start new friendships from scratch.

______________________________

See?? Same reason = different outlook.

YOU have just answered your very own post. To each their own depending upon the circumstances (just as the CF does it too with "restricted" moves).

My question now is: "Why post the question when you apparently have known exactly what you were going to do and when you were going to do it the entire time??"

 

[jtojtheno]

jtojtheno

You may be advised to rethink your actions, as your actions will reflect on your husband's career and perhaps cause his Release as an Administrative Burden/Problem.  You are not the first spouse you has taken too active a role in a member's career, and be warned, it usually ends with a job Termination.  Theirs, not yours.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "active role",  All I have done is come on a forums site for getting answers and asked for an answer. I'm not exactly sure how it got so out of context and everyone replying seems to think I'm asking things I shouldn't be asking or something.  I'm not trying to cause trouble and didn't mean to offend anyone with my lack of knowledge about the military. A lot of people on here seem like they're looking for people who don't know as much as they do so that they can make them feel inferior.  Again, I apologize, and I don't see how any of this has anything to do with my husbands career being put in the balance. He is a brilliant man who will excel in his trade and was told by the Captain in Kingston that he could have any trade available due to his testing scores.  I doubt that me coming on a forum and asking for opinions is going to jeopardize his career. 

Okay, take a deep breath......

I apologize for inferring that you spoke to a clerk.  Who were the Cpls you spoke to then?  Regardless of trade, I would not be speaking to a member's spouse without the member present.  I didn't do it in any of my trades.

Now, regarding the posting, I can understand why you want your family to be moved to be with your spouse.  We've gone from 20 weeks to 48 weeks to two years here.  Not quite sure how that happened.    ???

Your absolute best bet is to wait until he is in Kingston where they will decide whether or not they will lift the restriction.  They may lift it, if he will be there for over a year.  If he goes to Kingston, then to Borden, then back to Kingston, they may post you to Kingston only and he will go on TD or attached posting to Borden.  At any rate, it is up to him to submit the request.

Don't forget, this is only the beginning of his career.  You should be prepared for other separations during his time in the CF.

I spoke to 2 CPls, one in St. Jean and one in Ottawa. The one in St Jean told me one thing and the one in Ottawa told me another.  I did not seek them out, I was called regarding our daughters birth certificate, and in Ottawa the CPl I spoke with, my spouse was present.  I know that it is up to him to make any request, etc. I've never even tried to get involved in that way at all. And the letter that I sent to MFRC, yes, I was at my wits end at that point, because a clerk at St Jean was telling my fiance that we were not going to get any deductions removed from his pay until he got to Kingston. The letter I sent was actually very polite, just asking if this was the usual way of doing things because I didn't understand it.  We kept quiet about the R&Q being deducted up until our daughter was born, but once she was born, it didn't make sense to me that he would still be paying for his rations. That's why I emailed Kingston. The reason it went to his superiors, is because he WAS misinformed about that, TWICE.  I don't know why, I guess someone had their info wrong, maybe a new clerk, whatever. Anyways, it's been cleared up (the CPl we spoke with in Ottawa). 
Now we're just waiting till he gets to Kingston and we can figure out our next move. Like I said, I'm not looking to be moved, I had planned on going anyways. My family is there. 
Oh, and the length of the course thing, I know, it keeps changing, because I'm confused about that as well. It says the total of 48 weeks. But he's being told different, so we don't really know yet.