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The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread

According to Coderre the Lieberals (gee, can you see my political bias) "proposed" Billions of dollars for defense spending; of course that is the problem. The Lieberals "propose" to do many things, but they often do little. Kyoto, and the military come to mind.

It is being argued here that the military has no right to speak up for its own interests.That is a rediculous idea. The military needs to be more politicaly active. Soldiers, especially senior soldiers need to have blunt assesments of the CF made public. No political parties need be mentioned, just tell it like it is. Gen. Hillier is doing what needs to be done.  Good on him!
 
dynaglide said:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070216/hillier_prop_070216/20070216?hub=Canada

Comments?

I worked daily with Gen Hillier in Banja Luka, in 2000/2001 - when he was the Div Comd of MND(SW) in Bosnia.

The man certainly is "blunt" and not afraid to ruffle feathers - should he perceive that as being necessary.  He is also a "soldier's soldier", who inspires his troops with blunt and direct talk and actions.  I admire him for this ability - American commanders that I've worked for in the past seem to possess these qualities more frequently than our own senior leadership - I don't know why, and I've never attempted to analyze it - just an observation on my part.

What the liberals (and all the OTHER politicians) want to be wary of is his brilliance.  Gen Hillier's demeanour and straight-talking mask an intellect of prodigious proportions.  At times I think that his public persona is a deliberate construct - meant to keep his opponents unwary and off-balance.  At other times I think he's just a great guy who didn't let his brilliance overshadow his basic nature.

Either way - I'm not surprised that the Liberals are making such claims - of course they conveniently forget to mention that Gen Hillier was appointed CDS on THEIR watch!


Roy
 
sent to CTV


The liberals bled the forces dry and then expected miracles from them when needed. Now they are upset that the top soldier tells them the truth about how they bungled it?

You will reap what you sow and now that the Liberals are no longer in power the people that had to serve them and suffer under them are finally speaking out. The Canadian Forces was a victim of Liberal malicie and bungling. Good riddance I say and I hope they get to spend the next decade paying penance for their sins.

The Conservatives have breathed new life into the Forces and when you speak to a soldier you can feel the new energy that they have. Don’t forget the forces are our sons, daughters, fathers and mothers. They deserve the best that we can afford.
 
The Lieberals must be nashing at their teeth that 1. THEY chose Hillier 2. THEY sent the troops to Afghanistan

I am sure they are kicking themselves for keping the military at all. They are probably wishing the CF had been converted to a peace police that handed out flowers whilst leaping in the air. If only they had listend to Peirre Truedea and Alan Rock. IF only Svend Robinson would run as a Lieberal and lead them back to ther "roots". After all these are the "Canadian Values" that only REAL Canadians value. :rage:
 
Where did all this budget surplus that we see today come from again? And who put the in country into the biggest deficits in our nations history? Perhaps the blame is falling one primeminster to late?
I don't like any of the parties over any other, Harper is doing a fine job, proven himself an adaptable guy. But let's not forget basic fiscal managment, and the long term picture.
 
I caught part of the speech this AM and all he did was tell it like it is/was.  The CDS was not liberal bashing (openly anyway).  He said it had been a dark decades for us and it has been.  We have to improve the recruiting process and we are.  We've had to assimilate the lessons we've learned faster than we used to and we will. These are just a few points I picked up on (hard to see the captioning when you're bouncing up and down on the elliptical!)  Once again The Boss gave it to them with both barrels and just told the truth but that has been shown to be something that the Libs are incapable of anyway.

Remember, for the love of God, vote PC!
 
I don't see anything untoward with Hiller's comments. He just stated facts as they were, in context as to how far the CF has come and has to go. Excellent speech!!
 
Bane said:
Where did all this budget surplus that we see today come from again?  Radical, necessary but too often misdirected cuts to spending plus over-taxation.  The surplus came from our pockets; no other source.

And who put the in country into the biggest deficits in our nations history?  Pierre Trudeau who initiated a series of unaffordable social programmes and the culture of entitlement which made them a 'sacred trust.'  The deficits started in Trudeau's term; Mulroney failed to cut deeply enough to stop the interest on Trudeau's debt from compounding the problem.
 
Bane said:
Where did all this budget surplus that we see today come from again? And who put the in country into the biggest deficits in our nations history? Perhaps the blame is falling one primeminster to late?
I don't like any of the parties over any other, Harper is doing a fine job, proven himself an adaptable guy. But let's not forget basic fiscal managment, and the long term picture.

Yeah, let's forget:
1)  It was Trudeau who initiated the spending programs that eventually would run us into deficit without also creating the requisite revenue sources to fund those programs.
2)  It was Muldoon who implemented the GST which generated $35+ billion per annum, the existence of which the Liberals campaigned on removing (which they lied about).  It has since its inception being the only thing keeping Canada 'in the black'.
3)  The other savings that put the Federal Government into surpluses was by slashing and burning the provincial transfers by Paul Martin which in turn required the provinces to increase their own taxes, or increase tuitions, and otherwise cut and pare back most primary services.

Let's not forget indeed....


Matthew.    ::)
 
I agree with all of what was just said except about the GST and muldoon, the GST was created in 91 by the tory's. Yes it replaced the MST, but it was a very different creature so that analysis doesn't follow.

 
Found this on the news today, I guess the Liberals are getting on the defensive after 20+ years of letting the military slide in oblivion. Ha looks good on them. The CDS is right on the money!

The country's top soldier was branded as being a "prop" for the reigning Conservatives after he depicted the 1990s as a "decade of darkness" for the military.

In a speech to a defence group on Friday, Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier said the Canadian Forces dealt with troubled times from 1994 onwards when the Liberals worked to balance the federal budget with heavy budget cuts.

The Canadian Forces had only now begun to "fully realize the negative impact of the defense expenditure reduction from 1994 and the lasting, most negative, legacy that they brought into effect which has to be put right," the outspoken general told the annual meeting of the Conference of Defence Associations.

The military was deprived of money it needed for education, training, postings, equipment, fleets as the same time as it increased the number of operations, he said.

"Those actions, dollar deprived, have now led to some deep wounds in ... the Canadian Forces over this past, what I would call, a decade of darkness," Hillier said Friday.

Liberal defence critic Denis Coderre blasted Hillier's speech, saying it was inappropriate that he described the Liberal era in such a way.

Coderre defended the party's legacy, saying that the Liberals under Paul Martin proposed adding $13 million to the defence budget.

"We also have to understand that, when we came to power in 1993, we inherited a deficit of $40 billion and we had also to take care of some of the priorities including the quality of life of the people. So, talking today about 10 years of darkness, I don't think it's appropriate, I think it's highly political and I am very disappointed at it," Coderre told reporters.

"To get involved in politics, there is one way: You should run."

But Hillier defended his comments.

"I think there would be many people who would line up to say I'm not a politician. I don't tread in those waters," he said after his speech.

"My job as Chief of Defence staff is described clearly. And hopefully I paint a picture for Canadians, for our government, on what the state of the Armed Forces is. I have described it about three, or three-and-a-half years ago as we were in a decade of darkness with respect to what we needed to do versus we were being asked to do. And, as I said this morning, we've gone through a decades of darkness and we are starting to come out of it and like it or not that's the description of the Canadian Forces."

During his speech on Friday, Hillier also underscored the importance of bidding farewell to the troops as they head out on their missions and welcoming them back when they return.

He recounted that the first time he left for a mission, he received phone calls from friends, and his wife and two sons took him to the airport and bid him a tearful farewell.

The second time he left, however, he never heard from his friends and his sons stayed behind.

The third time he left, his wife took him to the airport and left him at the curb outside, Hillier recounted, drawing laughs.

"We've gotten a lot better since those times," he said.

Hillier cited a patriotic pep rally he attended at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown in January that celebrated the military and its mission in Afghanistan before the troops departed for six months.

"We had 5,000 people out there in the worst weather that Gagetown can offer up in late January and the folks were out there, the emotion was high, premiers were out, lieutenant governors were out, the media was out and it was one of those events that was just cemented into the minds of those soldiers," Hillier said.

The message to the troops, he said, is that "you are important. We need you to do this mission and we're going to ensure that you are supported

Source:http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/TopStories/ContentPosting.aspx?newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20070216%2fhillier_prop_070216&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V2&showbyline=True
 
If any one finds a link to the transcript of todays speech please let me know via here or PM.  I would like a copy for the OPME I'm working on.
Thanks
 
This seems to getting a lot of play in the media, unfortunately.

This is hardly the first time the CDS has describe the post-'94 period as a "decade of darkness", and I believe similar statements have been made by other analysts and commentators. It is up to the Liberal Defence critic, if he truly sees this as a "political" and incorrect statement, to prove otherwise - to prove it was not a decade of cuts, loss of capability, disrespect, and problems stemming from lack of support from the Government. The disbanding of the Airborne and the the Sea King fiasco stand out as two of many blunders made by the Government in this period.

By any objective measurement it was a bad decade for the military, and its easy to show how the cuts of the 90's have led to some of today's problems - lack of experienced techs and NCOs, aging equipment, etc. Many of the investments being made today are simply catching up to where we were ten years ago, buying things that should have been bought years ago and filling funding gaps that were opened a decade ago.

However, I don't see the "decade of darkness" as a Liberal-centric problem. I don't see how - with the deficit, the post-Cold War attitude, and the priorities of the Canadian public - a Conservative government could or would have done any different. (Personally, I also feel that the recent spending increases would have been done by either party if they were in power, because that is what the public demands at this time. But maybe I'm just an optimist)

The Honourabe Denis Coderre needs to step back into his lane. The Chief of Defence Staff was giving a valid professional opinion at a gathering of interested professionals and colleagues. And, unfortunately, the CDS is right and The Liberal critic will have a tough time proving otherwise.
 
"Liberal defence critic Denis Coderre blasted Hillier's speech, saying it was inappropriate that he described the Liberal era in such a way."

Quebec Liberals Trudeau, Chretien, Martin and Coderre, anyone see a pattern. 

Sarcasm on. Nice to see the politician Coderre doesn't let common sense get in the way of slagging Hillier. /sarcasm
I'm getting real tired of the new Liberal defence critic shooting his mouth off on defence matters he either doesn't understand or more likely doesn't have any idea of the importance of.

Dion should rein this amateur in but that's unlikely from a Liberal academic.

Is there no one in the Liberal party who could provide informed criticism of the CPC defence policies ?

 
Is there no one in the Liberal party who could provide informed criticism of the CPC defence policies ?

Not from what I've seen in the last year.

And it's a pity. It would be nice to have a dialogue in this country on important issues, maybe just once in a while. With his political rant M Coderre has managed to completely derail what could have been the beginning of a decent discussion on defence.

Whither the CF?

Now we will get three or four days of ranting from both sides instead of someone, who has the ear of the press saying "Well, General, I hear what you're saying, the milk is spilt, so how would you have us proceed??"

Someone once told me that Canada could have had it all, with our founding nations and our close proximity to the Americans we could have had British politics, French culture, and American know-how. Alas, he went on, we ended up with British know-how, French politics and American culture.

French politics indeed.
 
Bane said:
Where did all this budget surplus that we see today come from again? And who put the in country into the biggest deficits in our nations history? Perhaps the blame is falling one primeminster to late?
I don't like any of the parties over any other, Harper is doing a fine job, proven himself an adaptable guy. But let's not forget basic fiscal management, and the long term picture.
The budget deficits were brought in by Trudeau and his party, the chicken finally came to roost during the Mulroney years. While he could have done more to fight the debt and deficit, the liberals fought him tooth and nail on every initiative to get spending under control. The best thing Mulroney did was bring in GST which has become the cash cow that it is today. The only reason that the liberals can claim to be the ones to get us out of debt was because they reneged on their plan to axe the GST and Paul Martin was given free hand to get spending under control (also the oil boom in Western Canada and the Atlantic coast helped alot)
 
Look I'm no big fan of Liberal defence policy in the 90's, that was the decade I did my brief stint in the army and considered a full time career, but let's be honest, our nation could not have cared less about defence at that time.  The liberals could have continued with their part-financially, part-ideologically driven draw-down of the military but very few people would have cared.  I was actively involved in Reform at the time and their pledge of a stronger defence policy got very little traction .  Let me say it again - nobody in this country cared about defence. 

And let's remember that it was the Tories that promised so much on this issue in '87 and delivered instead continued neglet and cuts.  I'm amazed how many times I run into people who don't realize it was the Tories that axed the Chinooks.  Let's try not to look at our political history through such darkly tinted ideological lenses, politicians will always act in self interest, not in the interest of the fighting men and women.

And kudos to the CDS for telling it as it is.

And blaming the Liberals for the Tory majority's inability to cut deficits?...please....
 
Mud said:
Look I'm no big fan of Liberal defence policy in the 90's, that was the decade I did my brief stint in the army and considered a full time career, but let's be honest, our nation could not have cared less about defence at that time.  The liberals could have continued with their part-financially, part-ideologically driven draw-down of the military but very few people would have cared.  I was actively involved in Reform at the time and their pledge of a stronger defence policy got very little traction .  Let me say it again - nobody in this country cared about defence. 

And let's remember that it was the Tories that promised so much on this issue in '87 and delivered instead continued neglet and cuts.  I'm amazed how many times I run into people who don't realize it was the Tories that axed the Chinooks.  Let's try not to look at our political history through such darkly tinted ideological lenses, politicians will always act in self interest, not in the interest of the fighting men and women.

And kudos to the CDS for telling it as it is.

And blaming the Liberals for the Tory majority's inability to cut deficits?...please....

I agree Mud. Me thinks Coderre protests too much. The decade of darkness included almost four years of Tory rule under Brian Mulroney also. I was on exercise in Pet with 427 Tac Hel (TACK HELL!!) in 91 (Brian's watch) when we received the message about the demise of the Chinooks and the draw down of CFE. There were a lot of long faces on the flight line that morning. Coderre being all defensive about the CDS' comments just goes to show that the Liberals have lots to feel guilty about too.

Let's face it the collapse of the Soviet Bloc convinced the Politicians that they could stop spending money on us and they did...whatever political stripe they happened to be.

We've got some traction right now and people are listening. Who really gave a Monkey's about what people said at the Defense Association's talks in the past? The fact that this is gaining National coverage and reaction is proof that the Military has a new importance in our country. Our CDS has helped to make that so at an opportune time when the Nation needs to look to the security of us all.  :cdn:
 
IN HOC SIGNO said:
I agree Mud. Me thinks Coderre protests too much. The decade of darkness included almost four years of Tory rule under Brian Mulroney also. I was on exercise in Pet with 427 Tac Hel (TACK HELL!!) in 91 (Brian's watch) when we received the message about the demise of the Chinooks and the draw down of CFE. There were a lot of long faces on the flight line that morning. Coderre being all defensive about the CDS' comments just goes to show that the Liberals have lots to feel guilty about too.

Let's face it the collapse of the Soviet Bloc convinced the Politicians that they could stop spending money on us and they did...whatever political stripe they happened to be.

We've got some traction right now and people are listening. Who really gave a Monkey's about what people said at the Defense Association's talks in the past? The fact that this is gaining National coverage and reaction is proof that the Military has a new importance in our country. Our CDS has helped to make that so at an opportune time when the Nation needs to look to the security or us all.  :cdn:

Good post but I remain sightly puzzled. Was the speech just a CDS telling it like it is, as some say is the duty of a CDS, or was it straying into the political?
 
I'd imagine an objective look at the numbers, personnel, budgets, etc would quickly make it clear how accurate Hillier's comments were.  If the numbers show a significant drawdown in personnel and considerable shrinkage in funding that'd provide considerable reason to think that it'd have a very negative impact on the state of the CF, particularly if how many of the "proposed" things Coderre refers to actually came to pass is tossed in.  Looks like a good topic for a CBC "Reality Check" piece. 
 
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