The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Cloud Cover]

If NZ can do it in a week, and the people clapped, then so will we. I just hope the Cons don't take the bait, what is done by OIC can be reversed by OIC after an election.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I feel sometimes, that as a gun owner in Canada, that I am caught between federal politicians, whose endgame motive on firearms ownership I cannot fully trust and a vocal group of firearms owners whose rhetoric on firearms I find distasteful and will be seized upon by those opposed to all firearms ownership in Canada to use as a club against us all.

The fact of the matter is that in Canada, there is no constitutional protection for firearms ownership, unlike the US. To run around pretending otherwise and comparing Canada to Venezula is somewhat of a stretch. At least for now.

Venezuela was a world class economy and near the biggest suppliers of oil in the world. A vibrant, beautiful country. Just like Canada was.

Now they are a cesspool of misery and starvation. Led by the type of socialist dictatorship that so enamours and guides our own lead politician.

Just because Canada hasn't gotten there...yet, doesn't mean we aren't comparable.

Maybe we can ban UHaul vehicles also, or maybe knives. Cars, planes and cows are also on the agenda.

I'm terribly sorry that my concerns seem frivolous to everyone else, but I follow a bigger picture than most, that just look local.

I like to extrapolate and plan for most contingencies. I'm not zeroed in on any single fact or outcome.

Total failure of our government is simply another of those contingencies to plan for. What are the odds? If it's not zero, nobody should be condemned for planning for it.

I cannot fully trust a government whose rhetoric on firearms I find distasteful and will be seized upon by those opposed to all firearms ownership in Canada to use as a club against us all.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If NZ can do it in a week, and the people clapped, then so will we. I just hope the Cons don't take the bait, what is done by OIC can be reversed by OIC after an election.

...and the next government will flip it again. Maybe we can just rent our guns, four years at a time. We're a hot button, divisive topic that all politicians love to hate and they drag us out every four years to try curry favour. You're doubly screwed if your a Vet. You suffer twice concurrently.

Until property rights are enshrined in the Charter and it will cost a government millions upon millions to buy back whatever they decide to ban, we'll continue being ping pong balls and at the mercy of dimwitted, spiteful politicos and parties.

 

[Remius]

The fact of the matter is that in Canada, there is no constitutional protection for firearms ownership, unlike the US. To run around pretending otherwise and comparing Canada to Venezula is somewhat of a stretch. At least for now.

Very much so.  A very simple read of the history of Venezuela shows that it is apples and oranges.  That won't stop people from believing it to be true as long as it fits their narrative.

Convince the government that legal gun owners are not the problem.  Except that legal gun owners blew a away a bunch of people in Quebec and Christchurch.

I think we need to move away from the term legal gun owners and go with "lawful" gun owners.  Anyone can do illegal things withy legal tools.  Knives, cars, Tylenol.  A legal gun owner can do unlawful things. 

So lawful gun owners are not the issue.  It's the unlawful ones that need to be targeted.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Very much so.  A very simple read of the history of Venezuela shows that it is apples and oranges.  That won't stop people from believing it to be true as long as it fits their narrative.

Convince the government that legal gun owners are not the problem.  Except that legal gun owners blew a away a bunch of people in Quebec and Christchurch.

I think we need to move away from the term legal gun owners and go with "lawful" gun owners.  Anyone can do illegal things withy legal tools.  Knives, cars, Tylenol.  A legal gun owner can do unlawful things. 

So lawful gun owners are not the issue.  It's the unlawful ones that need to be targeted.

There's no apples or oranges or hunting in Venezuela because the starving people ate everything already 

 

[Haggis]

what is done by OIC can be reversed by OIC after an election.

... but by then the semis and handguns will have been collected and destroyed.  There will be no need for an OIC and the Liberal opposition will push very hard against it.

.....and it will cost a government millions upon millions to buy back whatever they decide to ban....

Look at the budget.  There is NO money set aside to finance any buybacks.  The gun grabbers have supported Bill C-71 and Minister Blair's campaign against handguns and semis on the pretext that there will be confiscation without compensation, just like in the 1990's.  The LAST thing the Liberals want to do is to alienate the antis by being too soft in their application of the bans.  The Liberals will need to show immediate results in order to capitalize on the support of the anti-gun crowd before the election.

My firm belief is that bans are coming - soon.  Handguns, semi rifles and shotguns and, for good measure, pump shotguns. They will be overarching, comprehensive, immediate and diligently enforced.  There will be no grandfathering.  There will be no buyback and there will be at least a Liberal minority government in October as a result.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

... but by then the semis and handguns will have been collected and destroyed.  There will be no need for an OIC and the Liberal opposition will push very hard against it.

Look at the budget.  There is NO money set aside to finance any buybacks.  The gun grabbers have supported Bill C-71 and Minister Blair's campaign against handguns and semis on the pretext that there will be confiscation without compensation, just like in the 1990's.  The LAST thing the Liberals want to do is to alienate the antis by being too soft in their application of the bans.  The Liberals will need to show immediate results in order to capitalize on the support of the anti-gun crowd before the election.

My firm belief is that bans are coming - soon.  Handguns, semi rifles and shotguns and, for good measure, pump shotguns. They will be overarching, comprehensive, immediate and diligently enforced.  There will be no grandfathering.  There will be no buyback and there will be at least a Liberal minority government in October as a result.

Please read my response again.
What I said was,

"Until property rights are enshrined in the Charter and it will cost a government millions upon millions to buy back whatever they decide to ban, "

No sweat, I'm used to it.

 

[Jed]

So if immediate Bans are arbitrarily applied and 10s of thousands of Canadians have the property stolen by the government in the next few months; what kind of a backlash would you expect to see? Especially after the country and the world views the gong show going on in Ottawa?  As I have said before, fur will fly. Lucky if Canada will be intact within a few years.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I've had some doubt that ruination was the end game. Those doubts are losing ground quicker with every day that passes.

I'm glad its coming to an end, only because I've become tired waiting for the hammer to drop for almost four years.

I haven't looked much and dont know if it could work, but if the Speaker sides with the Conservatives on the budget vote, I understand the trudeau grits could fall to a no confidence vote?

There's the Mother of all Hail Mary passes.

 

[Cloud Cover]

... but by then the semis and handguns will have been collected and destroyed.  There will be no need for an OIC and the Liberal opposition will push very hard against it.

Look at the budget.  There is NO money set aside to finance any buybacks.  The gun grabbers have supported Bill C-71 and Minister Blair's campaign against handguns and semis on the pretext that there will be confiscation without compensation, just like in the 1990's.  The LAST thing the Liberals want to do is to alienate the antis by being too soft in their application of the bans.  The Liberals will need to show immediate results in order to capitalize on the support of the anti-gun crowd before the election.

My firm belief is that bans are coming - soon.  Handguns, semi rifles and shotguns and, for good measure, pump shotguns. They will be overarching, comprehensive, immediate and diligently enforced.  There will be no grandfathering.  There will be no buyback and there will be at least a Liberal minority government in October as a result.

100 percent agree. They are wickedly desperate now to switch the channel from SNC.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

And what better way than to enrage millions of gun owners, who don't vote Liberal, anyway.

They get to change the channel on SNC.

In fact, they stand to gain the more they goad gun owners- some of whom are virtualiy garaunteed to say and do inflammatory things, which will then run 24/7 on CBC Newsworld.

Cynical and very, very dangerous.

The CPC had better have already gamed this out.

 

[Jed]

And what better way than to enrage millions of gun owners, who don't vote Liberal, anyway.

They get to change the channel on SNC.

In fact, they stand to gain the more they goad gun owners- some of whom are virtualiy garaunteed to say and do inflammatory things, which will then run 24/7 on CBC Newsworld.

Cynical and very, very dangerous.

The CPC had better have already gamed this out.

And the Liberals are too self absorbed to game this out and see the damage they are foisting on to the country.

 

[Haggis]

Please read my response again.

I read it.  I focused on the line related to the topic at hand.

What I said was,

"Until property rights are enshrined in the Charter and it will cost a government millions upon millions to buy back whatever they decide to ban, "

Yup, but property rights never were, and will not be enshrined in the constitution in our lifetime and probably never.

No sweat, I'm used to it.

If you believe I quoted you out of context, I am sorry.  But, like you, I represent everything Liberals disdain and I'm taking this upcoming gun grab very, very personally as it's a disgusting, self serving and deeply offensive affront to the values I spent my entire adult life defending. I will fight it and I will campaign vigorously against any politician who supports it as it is symbolic of a government's mistrust of those who brought them to power and it's desire to rule rather than govern Canada.

The really sad part is that I will most probably also comply.  The last 40 years have conditioned me to be a creature of duty.  I still obey lawful authority.  To do otherwise, even if I don't agree with the law, is wrong and could very well see me in jail or, at least, unemployed.  I will not sacrifice my career and my family's livelihood for simple property, no matter how valuable it may be in my eyes.

if there is time between the OIC publication and the implementation, I will either sell or transfer my guns to some American friends in the hopes a future government will overturn the bans some day.  But I'm sure the Liberals will find a way to close that loophole, too.

 

[Rifleman62]

I don't own guns. I shoot with a hand gun in the US with a friend who has several kinds of wpns.

Is it possible to move your guns to the US, store them in a facility, and go there to shoot as an alternative to losing them completely?

 

[Kat Stevens]

All we have to do is make being a criminal illegal. That way, nobody will ever get killed again, too easy.

 

[TimneyTime]

I don't own guns. I shoot with a hand gun in the US with a friend who has several kinds of wpns.

Is it possible to move your guns to the US, store them in a facility, and go there to shoot as an alternative to losing them completely?

It's possible, but it's a royal pain in the butt... and ultimately not worth it.  Might as well look for a long term posting in the states instead.

 

[Haggis]

All we have to do is make being a criminal illegal. That way, nobody will ever get killed again, too easy.

Where were you 313 posts ago?

 

[Remius]

I don't own guns. I shoot with a hand gun in the US with a friend who has several kinds of wpns.

Is it possible to move your guns to the US, store them in a facility, and go there to shoot as an alternative to losing them completely?

I found this.

https://www.ezbordercrossing.com/the-inspection-experience/transporting-firearms/bringing-firearms-into-the-u-s/

This part:it is unlawful for non-U.S. residents to possess or obtain firearms or ammunition while in the U.S.
but there are a few exception listed on that page.

Short answer might be no.  But I am not sure.  I heard that ironically, bringing a gun into the US legally is apparently harder than legally bringing in a gun to Canada.  Not sure if that is true or not.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If your paperwork is in order, it takes no time at customs. We used to shoot competition almost every weekend over there. I still cross yearly, more than once with guns. Sometimes I've never even been sent to secondary. Just know the laws and have your papers ready. If you didn't have your own, you borrowed one, at the range. All legal and easily doable.

Same if we won a gun as a prize. Report to Customs on return and it's almost easier to register it through them than on your own.

Taking firearms into the states, for legal reasons, is not a heartache. Most times you spend way less time with US Border Patrol than Canada Customs. Even if you don't bring anything back. Just tell them you were over there shooting, then settle in for the wait. At least you're back on your side of the border.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

:Tin-Foil-Hat: