The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[daftandbarmy]

Gun control also means hitting what you're aiming at, and not accidentally blasting things....

American Gun Owners Are Bad at Owning Guns​

There are many who never got training, and never intend to. This is a problem.

Around 6 p.m. on July 17 of this past year, a shooter exited the bathroom of an Indiana mall wielding an AR-15-style rifle. He opened fire, instantly killing a man walking by the restrooms as well as a couple seated at a nearby food court. Moments later, he lay dead on the floor of that same mall bathroom.

A 22-year-old bystander named Elisjsha Dicken, legally carrying a Glock pistol while on a date with his girlfriend, had sprung into action. Firing 10 rounds at a distance of 40 yards, Dicken struck the shooter eight times, ending the mass shooting only 15 seconds after it began. His actions were nothing short of remarkable: To draw and fire his weapon in less than a quarter of a minute, with a high degree of accuracy, at a moment of abject panic and terror, exhibited uncommon nerve, presence of mind, and skill. To do all that from 40 yards away—nearly twice the distance of most police pistol qualifying tests—is simply astounding.

Yet, these early experiences at the club also impressed upon me that there is a substantial contingent of gun owners who do not meet this description. Contrary to media narratives, many gun owners are not gun-obsessed, but gun-casual. As someone who was raised to take guns seriously—deadly seriously, as they should be—I was shocked by how cavalier (and, again, incompetent) a lot of gun owners I encountered were. Some were the kind of guys who concealed-carried every day but only made it to the range once or twice a year. They couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn from 10 paces—the idea that they were capable of defending their “castle” from anything was laughable. Others were well-meaning new gun owners who had zero clue how to transport, load, discharge, or unload a firearm. They simply bought a gun and ammunition and showed up at the range or clay pigeon course to figure it out. I watched one of these bumbling neophytes nearly Dick Cheney his buddy one sweaty summer afternoon, sending a spray of birdshot into a birch tree 10 feet above his head.

American Gun Owners Are Bad at Owning Guns

There are many who never got training, and never intend to. This is a problem.

slate.com

 

[Halifax Tar]

Gun control also means hitting what you're aiming at, and not accidentally blasting things....

American Gun Owners Are Bad at Owning Guns​

There are many who never got training, and never intend to. This is a problem.

Around 6 p.m. on July 17 of this past year, a shooter exited the bathroom of an Indiana mall wielding an AR-15-style rifle. He opened fire, instantly killing a man walking by the restrooms as well as a couple seated at a nearby food court. Moments later, he lay dead on the floor of that same mall bathroom.

A 22-year-old bystander named Elisjsha Dicken, legally carrying a Glock pistol while on a date with his girlfriend, had sprung into action. Firing 10 rounds at a distance of 40 yards, Dicken struck the shooter eight times, ending the mass shooting only 15 seconds after it began. His actions were nothing short of remarkable: To draw and fire his weapon in less than a quarter of a minute, with a high degree of accuracy, at a moment of abject panic and terror, exhibited uncommon nerve, presence of mind, and skill. To do all that from 40 yards away—nearly twice the distance of most police pistol qualifying tests—is simply astounding.

Yet, these early experiences at the club also impressed upon me that there is a substantial contingent of gun owners who do not meet this description. Contrary to media narratives, many gun owners are not gun-obsessed, but gun-casual. As someone who was raised to take guns seriously—deadly seriously, as they should be—I was shocked by how cavalier (and, again, incompetent) a lot of gun owners I encountered were. Some were the kind of guys who concealed-carried every day but only made it to the range once or twice a year. They couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn from 10 paces—the idea that they were capable of defending their “castle” from anything was laughable. Others were well-meaning new gun owners who had zero clue how to transport, load, discharge, or unload a firearm. They simply bought a gun and ammunition and showed up at the range or clay pigeon course to figure it out. I watched one of these bumbling neophytes nearly Dick Cheney his buddy one sweaty summer afternoon, sending a spray of birdshot into a birch tree 10 feet above his head.

American Gun Owners Are Bad at Owning Guns

There are many who never got training, and never intend to. This is a problem.

slate.com

And this is why I don't support CC and I do support more stringent testing/licencing including a practical portion.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Some were the kind of guys who concealed-carried every day but only made it to the range once or twice a year.

So like, many police officers and soldiers in Canada?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Gun control also means hitting what you're aiming at, and not accidentally blasting things....

American Gun Owners Are Bad at Owning Guns​

There are many who never got training, and never intend to. This is a problem.

Around 6 p.m. on July 17 of this past year, a shooter exited the bathroom of an Indiana mall wielding an AR-15-style rifle. He opened fire, instantly killing a man walking by the restrooms as well as a couple seated at a nearby food court. Moments later, he lay dead on the floor of that same mall bathroom.

A 22-year-old bystander named Elisjsha Dicken, legally carrying a Glock pistol while on a date with his girlfriend, had sprung into action. Firing 10 rounds at a distance of 40 yards, Dicken struck the shooter eight times, ending the mass shooting only 15 seconds after it began. His actions were nothing short of remarkable: To draw and fire his weapon in less than a quarter of a minute, with a high degree of accuracy, at a moment of abject panic and terror, exhibited uncommon nerve, presence of mind, and skill. To do all that from 40 yards away—nearly twice the distance of most police pistol qualifying tests—is simply astounding.

Yet, these early experiences at the club also impressed upon me that there is a substantial contingent of gun owners who do not meet this description. Contrary to media narratives, many gun owners are not gun-obsessed, but gun-casual. As someone who was raised to take guns seriously—deadly seriously, as they should be—I was shocked by how cavalier (and, again, incompetent) a lot of gun owners I encountered were. Some were the kind of guys who concealed-carried every day but only made it to the range once or twice a year. They couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn from 10 paces—the idea that they were capable of defending their “castle” from anything was laughable. Others were well-meaning new gun owners who had zero clue how to transport, load, discharge, or unload a firearm. They simply bought a gun and ammunition and showed up at the range or clay pigeon course to figure it out. I watched one of these bumbling neophytes nearly Dick Cheney his buddy one sweaty summer afternoon, sending a spray of birdshot into a birch tree 10 feet above his head.

American Gun Owners Are Bad at Owning Guns

There are many who never got training, and never intend to. This is a problem.

slate.com

Not,a knock, but can we keep this in Canada? This is what trudeau is doing to add fear to his agenda. Using shootings in the US as a reason to take our guns. Nothing in the article applies to trained, examined PAL holders in Canada. By the by, as a prospector, I need to prove competency with my sidearm and submit targets, overseen by approved range staff.

 

[Haggis]

And this is why I don't support CC and I do support more stringent testing/licencing including a practical portion.

The CFSC and CRFSC both contain a written and practical dry fire test.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And this is why I don't support CC and I do support more stringent testing/licencing including a practical portion.

If you carry in Canada, you need to prove you can hit what you're shooting at.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If you carry in Canada, you need to prove you can hit what you're shooting at.

The CFO was asked to provide a training syllabus for ATC for the purpose of self-defense. They refused to, because they knew someone would design a course around it and another excuse not to issue them would be removed.

 

[OldSolduer]

Ummmm....sorry to interrupt your outrage but the article you linked is dated November 8th, 2013.

Correct. I heard him say this and NOT ONE media outlet took him to task on it. And if there was one it was “poo pooed” because you know….peasants and Neanderthals don’t know anything

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'll throw in some UFI before I get to where I was going. You need a Prospector licence. Dates and details of your last mineral assay. You need to claim your section. How many days did you work. Geomap coordinates for various things. Lots of other stuff. You can register three firearms.

Anyway, here's the Proof of Proficiency, a condensed version. You need to contact your CFO for the package. You won't find it online.

INFORMATION SHEET
Administrator:
• The Proof of Proficiency (POP) must be administered by an individual who holds a valid Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL) for restricted firearms at the time of the administration AND who is a range safety officer OR a member of an approved shooting range executive OR is an instructor for a recognized firearms course or discipline.

Firearms:
• The firearm used during the POP must be the same firearm(s) the applicant intends to use for wilderness protection.
• An applicant can only apply for a maximum of three firearms to be listed on their Authorization to Carry (ATC) and a POP must be completed for each firearm of different caliber.
• The minimum calibre accepted for wilderness protection is .357Magnum.

Holsters:
• Holsters must be designed to be worn on a belt around the waist, outside of clothing and have at least one strap with a snap closure that retains the firearm securely in the holster.
• The holster must be designed to completely cover the trigger.
• A holster and a holster retention device must be used during the POP.
• Shoulder and cross-draw holsters are not permitted.

Targets:
• Steel targets are not permitted.

Assessment:
• The applicant must fire six (6) rounds from each distance (i.e. 3m and 5m).

Scoring:
• The administrator must indicate the total number of hits for each shooting distance. A hit is awarded when a round lands on the designated scoring area of the target. The designated scoring area is defined as being a circle with a radius of 2 inches or 5 cm.
• The applicant must achieve 10 hits for every 12 rounds fired.
• If an applicant fails to achieve the minimum pass mark, the applicant must be retested for the failed shooting distance.
• An applicant can only attempt a maximum of two retests for each shooting distance.
• If an applicant fails to achieve the minimum pass mark after three attempts for either distance, the applicant can not attempt to do the POP assessment until after a minimum of 30 days have passed.
• The administrator must submit all POP assessment results – pass or fail – to the Chief Firearms Officer of Ontario.









ASSESSMENT

Part 1: APPLICANT INFORMATION

Surname: _____________________________________________________________________
Given Name(s): ________________________________________________________________
Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL): __________________________________________


Part 2: FIREARM INFORMATION AND PROOF OF PROFICIENCY EXAM


Firearm Registration Certificate 1: _______________________________________________
Firearm Identification Number (FIN): _______________________________________________
Make: ________________________________________________________________________
Model: _______________________________________________________________________
Calibre: _______________________________________________________________________
Type of Ammunition Used: _______________________________________________________
Prepared firearm safely: Pass ☐ Fail ☐
Firearm holstered safely and prepared for POP: Pass ☐ Fail ☐
Drawing from the holster and firing smoothly: Pass ☐ Fail ☐
Target Type: Silhouette ☐ Bullseye ☐ Other (Specify): ________________

First Attempt
Standing: 3M (Score): /_6 5M (Score): /_6 Pass ☐ Fail ☐

Second Attempt
Standing: 3M (Score): /_6 5M (Score): /_6 Pass ☐ Fail ☐

Third Attempt
Standing: 3M (Score): /_6 5M (Score): /_6 Pass ☐ Fail ☐




Part 3: PROOF OF PROFICIENCY ADMINISTRATOR INFORMATION

Surname: ______________________________________________________________________
Given Name(s): _________________________________________________________________
Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL): ___________________________________________
Daytime Telephone Number: _______________________________________________________
Evening Telephone Number: _______________________________________________________
Email: _________________________________________________________________________
Date of POP Administration: _______________________________________________________
Location of POP Administration: ____________________________________________________
Comments (attach additional pages if necessary): _______________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

It is an offence under section 106 of the Firearms Act to knowingly make false or misleading statement, either orally or in writing, or to knowingly fail to disclose relevant information, for the purpose of obtaining an authorization.

I declare that the information above and on any attachment(s) is true and correct to the best of my knowledge.

Administrator’s signature: ________________________________________________________

Date Signed: ___________________________________________________________________



Part 4: CHIEF FIREARMS OFFICE USE ONLY

 

[CBH99]

Ummmm....sorry to interrupt your outrage but the article you linked is dated November 8th, 2013.

Well darn it…

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Well darn it…

Not to worry. He still said and AFAIK, hasn’t said otherwise. So the statement stands on record.

 

[Haggis]

Minister Mendocino made it clear yesterday that the bans will soon be expanded and has "tasked" SECU to get on with it. The NDP and Bloc support him, The CPC, aided by "the NRA" (CCFR), are the bad guys again.

He has also found an unwilling ally in the Canadian Sporting Arms and Ammunition Association (CSAAA) who agreed to assist him in helping their member businesses to liquidate their stock of non-returnable, unsellable, unexportable banned firearms. Unfortunately, some big name retailers have turned their backs on the CSAAA branding them as traitors to the gun community.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The answer to the question “when will they stop?” appears to be:

• when citizens have no firearms or
• they are removed from govt by votes.

 

[Good2Golf]

Seems like COA2 isn’t happening anytime soon. The only thing we can depend on is that Canada’s violent crime rate will continue to rise unabated under the Sunny Ways aegis…since lawful firearm ownership has not contributed to the LPC’s rise in violence from 2015 onwards…

 

[KevinB]

The answer to the question “when will they stop?” appears to be:

• when citizens have no firearms or
• they are removed from govt by votes.

I would like to put forward option #3: when hung by the neck after the revolt.

 

[Haggis]

Seems like COA2 isn’t happening anytime soon. The only thing we can depend on is that Canada’s violent crime rate will continue to rise unabated under the Sunny Ways aegis…since lawful firearm ownership has not contributed to the LPC’s rise in violence from 2015 onwards…

The Liberal's talking points say otherwise.

 

[Good2Golf]

The Liberal's talking points say otherwise.

 

[CBH99]

View attachment 77418
View attachment 77419

It’s almost like the rise in violent crime started right around when Trudeau took office…

Could the elimination of mandatory minimum sentences possibly be a factor? Or the changes to bail regulations that encourage most offenders be released on bail - including the ones that shouldn’t be?


Hmmmmmmm…

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Minister Mendocino made it clear yesterday that the bans will soon be expanded and has "tasked" SECU to get on with it. The NDP and Bloc support him, The CPC, aided by "the NRA" (CCFR), are the bad guys again.

He has also found an unwilling ally in the Canadian Sporting Arms and Ammunition Association (CSAAA) who agreed to assist him in helping their member businesses to liquidate their stock of non-returnable, unsellable, unexportable banned firearms. Unfortunately, some big name retailers have turned their backs on the CSAAA branding them as traitors to the gun community.

I sort of get it, the businesses each have hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions tied up in inventory they can't sell. Some of them are likley desperate not to go bankrupt.

 

[KJK]

One of the shops in Edmonton is sitting on $550,000 of unsalable firearms. The owner was on the news some months ago talking about it. I doubt he will get anywhere near that out of the 'buyback' but what ever he gets is more than he has now and he doesn't have the storage costs or liability. Outfits like Cabelas can write off those costs but the small shops not so much.

The worst of his situation was the dirty way the LPC did their ban. He had about $350.000 in restricted firearms when the ban was announced so he ordered $200,000 more stock of firearms that weren't on the 1st list and then before the new order had made it to the store most of them were made illegal on the 2nd and ever growing list. You kind of get the feeling that the feds were trying to bankrupt the smaller stores with their dirty dealings.