The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Eaglelord17]

The numbers quoted in the article are alarming and unacceptable. Especially them losing full auto weapons. From previous convo here, I'm pretty sure the only ones with full auto are ERT and close protection. I stand to be corrected. Point being these are some of the most highly trained RCMP. How do things go missing from these people? I'm still trying to understand how this whole thing can happen. Just how horrible is their security?

Even if my house were a fortress and all my stuff is in safes and locked up, should someone manage to get in and steal my stuff, The crown would still confiscate everything else I had left and charge me and recind my PAL. It doesn't sound like from the article, any of these stolen weapons resulted in charges for the ones responsible for them.

Considering we have had police officers literally shoot each other resulting in no charges my faith in the ability of our system to police itself is low.

 

[OldSolduer]

Thanks for the coal face picture @medicineman - appreciated for the REST of the story.

Machetes are a very real concern in "the hood" in Winnipeg - the hood means all of Winnipeg

 

[Halifax Tar]

Considering we have had police officers literally shoot each other resulting in no charges my faith in the ability of our system to police itself is low.

They also shoot up fire stations then speed away facing no discipline.

I feel bad for LEOs it's a tough environment these days but they don't do themselves any favors.

 

[Eaglelord17]

They also shoot up fire stations then speed away facing no discipline.

I feel bad for LEOs it's a tough environment these days but they don't do themselves any favors.

It is a terrible environment for them, you get crapped on by all sides and for 99% of them they are just trying to make this world a better place.

The other side of it is the rule for thee but not for me aspect. Like when that police officer threatened the other one with a gun and didn’t even lose her job when if a average citizen had done the equivalent they would have substantial charges.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Cops have a hard job. I'm not hacking on them. I want to know what kind of system allows for these loses without oversight. I don't know if it would help in these cases, but I've always believed any LEO in contact with firearms should have a PAL course including restricted. I have a hard time extrapolating this to other forces, these were just RCMP stats. How many go missing from other departments to add to this. While I don't expect to hear the discipline handed out to still serving, anything that would have a civilian gun owner before the courts should get the attention it deserves. The old 'justice must not just be done, it must be seen to be done' comes to mind.

 

[Haggis]

Cops have a hard job. I'm not hacking on them. I want to know what kind of system allows for these loses without oversight. I don't know if it would help in these cases, but I've always believed any LEO in contact with firearms should have a PAL course including restricted. I have a hard time extrapolating this to other forces, these were just RCMP stats. How many go missing from other departments to add to this. While I don't expect to hear the discipline handed out to still serving, anything that would have a civilian gun owner before the courts should get the attention it deserves. The old 'justice must not just be done, it must be seen to be done' comes to mind.

Police and CAF applicants are not required to take the CFSC or CRFSC prior to being hired. CBSA applicants are the only LEOs I'm aware of where this is a condition of employment.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Police and CAF applicants are not required to take the CFSC or CRFSC prior to being hired. CBSA applicants are the only LEOs I'm aware of where this is a condition of employment.

I'm aware of that, it's why I recommended that they take it a term of employment.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I used to take LEO's shooting with me. Trying to explain the Firearms Act to them left them utterly confused, because they were desperately trying to find some logic in it. They were also surprised just how much many civilians shoot and how much ammo we consumed.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I used to take LEO's shooting with me. Trying to explain the Firearms Act to them left them utterly confused, because they were desperately trying to find some logic in it. They were also surprised just how much many civilians shoot and how much ammo we consumed.

There have been numerous incidents of shooters and hunters being stopped by cops being confused on the laws. It has resulted in arrest and confiscation of firearms because the LEO doesn't know the law. Fortunately, many of these actions are stopped by a senior member when it gets to the station. If for no other reason than clarity and education of the firearms laws, they should require a PAL.

 

[Halifax Tar]

There have been numerous incidents of shooters and hunters being stopped by cops being confused on the laws. It has resulted in arrest and confiscation of firearms because the LEO doesn't know the law. Fortunately, many of these actions are stopped by a senior member when it gets to the station. If for no other reason than clarity and education of the firearms laws, they should require a PAL.

I've never had bad interactions with any wildlife officers while either at the public ranges or hunting.

I find them to be friendly and reasonable folks.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I've never had bad interactions with any wildlife officers while either at the public ranges or hunting.

I find them to be friendly and reasonable folks.

I think Wildlife Officers are probably better informed than regular cops. A large majority of their stops and interactions are with knowingly armed people. In Ontario they must have proof of Canadian Firearms Safety Course certification. So it sounds like they don't need a PAL, but still need the course. I'm OK with that. All I want is properly informed LEOs. Too many have no understanding of transportation and storage laws as well as what classification firearms are and what accessories are. I include accessories for a reason. I had an old Model 12 pump gun with a poly choke. A local cop saw it and seized it "because you're not allowed to have a silencer." Away we go down to the station, him all grins. As soon as he said he had a gun with a silencer, everyone wanted to see. It didn't take long for the laughter and then the apologies from his bosses and a ride home with my shotgun.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Good Job RCMP

45 firearms stolen from RCMP since 2014, including grenade launcher

At least 45 firearms have been stolen from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police since 2014, including 33 handguns and a grenade launcher.

www.ctvnews.ca

True North has a different count...

The RCMP have lost 205 firearms since 2020

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police lost a total of 205 firearms since 2020, including submachine guns and machine guns, according to data obtained through an access-to-information request.

tnc.news

 

[Good2Golf]

Stolen ≠ lost

 

[Haggis]

From the CA/US tariff spat, Trudeau just imposed a 25% tariff on all firearms, firearm parts and accessories and ammunition imports from the US beginning on February 4, 2025.

If you weren't a fan of dry fire practice before, you will be soon.

 

[Alberta Bound]

In working on a number of reservations in Alberta and Manitoba. While Alberta had lots of both edged weapon (mainly samurai swords and steak knives) as well as firearm violence. We had surprisingly little firearm offences where / when I was in Manitoba. But plenty of machete and steak knife activity. Most of our regular clientele had permanent souvenirs of past disputes.

 

[OldSolduer]

In working on a number of reservations in Alberta and Manitoba. While Alberta had lots of both edged weapon (mainly samurai swords and steak knives) as well as firearm violence. We had surprisingly little firearm offences where / when I was in Manitoba. But plenty of machete and steak knife activity. Most of our regular clientele had permanent souvenirs of past disputes.

And I got to observe a number of very nasty scars and wounds when I worked the intake department in the jail. Mostly knife and machete wounds. One guy got shot by the cops.

 

[Alberta Bound]

I don’t know what happened in 2016. But having been involved in investigations of lost / stolen firearms (civilian and RCMP). I will just say that there are some instances where Members could have been more diligent and others where they were in no way responsible.

• Stolen while in the custody of Canada Post / Couriers.
• Secured in police vehicles that were stolen also.
• Stolen from police vehicles that they were secured in.
• Stolen from RCMP housing where they were secured.
• Stolen from hotel rooms where they were secured.

* Secured in each scenario = within the legal requirements.

• Lost on marine duties in the drink.
• Lost on snowmobile patrols.
• Lost on ATV patrols.
• Lost when chasing / wrestling suspects in all sorts of environments (normally alone).

Remember, many Members work in environments where they have pistol, shotgun, rifle and/or carbine with them for extended periods of time (days, weeks, months), due to on call, extended patrols, fly in posts, etc. In my service, I had my Force housing broken into, my PC broken into (a couple times) and a few fights where the offender(s) tried to get my pistol. The life of a Member working in rural Canada and carrying a loaded firearm every shift and in some cases when on call. Is very different than drawing a weapon from the armoury for a range or field Ex.

Don’t get me wrong, there are instances where Members negligently lost firearms. Or mishandled them. In those cases investigations happened and disciplinary proceedings occurred. In a few cases also criminal charges and/or administrative discharges. Just like the CAF.

 

[Alberta Bound]

As far as knowing the ever changing firearms regs, I will give it to you that most Members have a superficial understanding. The rural Members were normally better than the ones who came from urban areas. It simply comes down to prioritization. Between Municipal, Provincial, and Federal Acts, Regs, Caselaw, Policies and Procedures. Firearms issues were just not a large percent of calls, issues and the ones that were normally fell into a few common offences. The rest of the time you relied on the Member asking someone with more experience. But like every group, sometimes Members don’t and the outcome is an avoidable mistake. For a while the RCMP made everyone take the restricted course at Depot. But it was one bit of info in a sea of info. The RCMP knew this and for about a decade they used to send out sets of four double sided laminated letter size aide memoires. They were the best thing, but one day that stopped due to $$$$$ reasons.

 

[Halifax Tar]

From the CA/US tariff spat, Trudeau just imposed a 25% tariff on all firearms, firearm parts and accessories and ammunition imports from the US beginning on February 4, 2025.

If you weren't a fan of dry fire practice before, you will be soon.

I should have enough to weather this storm.

 

[Jarnhamar]

From the CA/US tariff spat, Trudeau just imposed a 25% tariff on all firearms, firearm parts and accessories and ammunition imports from the US beginning on February 4, 2025.

If you weren't a fan of dry fire practice before, you will be soon.

I bet he smiled the whole time.