The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Dana381]

Watch for the ban of Nerf water pistols and Nerf foam dart guns. Because they are colorful and scary....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7322314

Water guns are very dangerous after all right.

 

[Halifax Tar]

They have a little to show for it, but it's not what they hoped for. The ban has done nothing to decrease violent crime with the guns it banned as they weren't being used criminally in Canada.

The article mentions 60 public servants and 15 RCMP employees (unclear if regular or civilian members) have been assigned to this very high priority public safety file, which is now over four years old.

Police and Canada Post have both refused to participate in the confiscation program for various and very good reasons. I expect the CAF will be tasked to "come up with a plan" to meet the Liberal's objectives. I can't see that being well accepted by Canadians ("the Army is coming to get my guns!") or by those CAF members who stand to lose their own property to the program.

I'm not sure this is an order I could follow if it were given to me. This might be my bridge to far.

 

[Haggis]

I'm not sure this is an order I could follow if it were given to me. This might be my bridge to far.

The alternative would be a trip through the military justice system leading to possible unemployment, similar to what happened to those who refused the COVID-19 vaccination.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The alternative would be a trip through the military justice system leading to possible unemployment, similar to what happened to those who refused the COVID-19 vaccination.

Seeing as I could be made to confiscate my own material, call me coccineous objector.

I dont think anyone who decided against the COVID 19 vax was given Admin/Discp action. I thought they were just released ?

The Jab was probably my limit. And they was taken simply because I felt pressure, not some altruistic ideal.

 

[Remius]

They have a little to show for it, but it's not what they hoped for. The ban has done nothing to decrease violent crime with the guns it banned as they weren't being used criminally in Canada.

The article mentions 60 public servants and 15 RCMP employees (unclear if regular or civilian members) have been assigned to this very high priority public safety file, which is now over four years old.

I saw a PS poster on Jobs.gc.ca looking for people to go work there. All sorts of levels. My take is why go there if that org will likely get cut after the next election…

Police and Canada Post have both refused to participate in the confiscation program for various and very good reasons. I expect the CAF will be tasked to "come up with a plan" to meet the Liberal's objectives. I can't see that being well accepted by Canadians ("the Army is coming to get my guns!") or by those CAF members who stand to lose their own property to the program.

Rebel News pretty much insinuated that that was what we were training for on our last Dom Ops validation ex. It is a ridiculous theory for so many reasons.

 

[Remius]

Seeing as I could be made to confiscate my own material, call me coccineous objector.

Red creeping Thyme? Apparently you will be a very fragrant objector.

I dont think anyone who decided against the COVID 19 vax was given Admin/Discp action. I thought they were just released ?

Yes they were. Those steps had to be taken. Recorded warnings followed by C&P and NOI to release.

My take is that any gun buy back, etc will be punted until after an election. The LPC has known this isn’t popular. They aren’t likely to win so it will go away.

Even in the unlikely event that they win, it will be a voluntary buy back. Anyone refusing and caught after that will likely get charged for whatever criminal offence that will bring. So they may not actively come find you, but don’t get stopped for anything because that’s when you might face the music.

They created this mess when they thought this was a popular thing when it really wasn’t and now I suspect they don’t know what to do or at least are afraid of pushing this more than they have. I’ve said before and I will say it again: it’s bad legislation, does nothing and now it’s costing more than it is worth.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Red creeping Thyme? Apparently you will be a very fragrant objector.

Damn auto correct lol

Yes they were. Those steps had to be taken. Recorded warnings followed by C&P and NOI to release.

My take is that any gun buy back, etc will be punted until after an election. The LPC has known this isn’t popular. They aren’t likely to win so it will go away.

Even in the unlikely event that they win, it will be a voluntary buy back. Anyone refusing and caught after that will likely get charged for whatever criminal offence that will bring. So they may not actively come find you, but don’t get stopped for anything because that’s when you might face the music.

They created this mess when they thought this was a popular thing when it really wasn’t and now I suspect they don’t know what to do or at least are afraid of pushing this more than they have. I’ve said before and I will say it again: it’s bad legislation, does nothing and now it’s costing more than it is worth.

I would just release, take my pension and run.

 

[FSTO]

Actually, you are allowed to carry a pocket knife in the UK, as long as it is a folding blade less than 3”.

Selling, buying and carrying knives and weapons

The laws on selling, buying and carrying a knife or weapon depend on the type of knife or weapon, your age and your circumstances.

www.gov.uk

Locking pocket knives is what I always carry.

 

[Jarnhamar]

My take is that any gun buy back, etc will be punted until after an election. The LPC has known this isn’t popular. They aren’t likely to win so it will go away.

I assumed that was their plan from the start. Make big promises costing in the multi-billion dollar range then just kick the can down the road every 365 days until they're put of office.

Liberal voters get to lie to themselves about feeling safe from guns for the cool price of $67M.

 

[Haggis]

I saw a PS poster on Jobs.gc.ca looking for people to go work there. All sorts of levels. My take is why go there if that org will likely get cut after the next election…

If the CPC win a large enough majority.

Rebel News pretty much insinuated that that was what we were training for on our last Dom Ops validation ex. It is a ridiculous theory for so many reasons.

Is it really that ridiculous? Trudeau is desperate for a major policy win. I would put nothing past him. That being said, it may well turn out to be an impossible short term task from a resource point-of-view.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Rebel News pretty much insinuated that that was what we were training for on our last Dom Ops validation ex. It is a ridiculous theory for so many reasons.

In 2013 the CAF, while on dom ops in High-River Alberta, initially assisted the RCMP who were confiscating firearms. Some of which were allegedly out in the open, some found after the RCMP returned to the residences 3 or 4 times (after consulting the defunct long arm registry they were ordered to destroy and disobeyed).

From a technical point of view using dom ops as a validation ex makes sense. I can see the the Liberals tasking the CAF with assisting the RCMP with collecting firearms by providing logistical support.

 

[Remius]

If the CPC win a large enough majority.

Watch what he does in the first six months, majority or not. No one will bring down the government over that. There are plenty of jobs and departments/units that I would advise getting hired into right now as I doubt they survive a new government. Majority or minority.

Is it really that ridiculous? Trudeau is desperate for a major policy win. I would put nothing past him. That being said, it may well turn out to be an impossible short term task from a resource point-of-view.

For a variety of reasons. Criminal and civil enforcement actions are not the realm of the CAF. And as you stated we are not staffed nor equipped to do that sort of thing even if we wanted to.

And…they know that would be unpopular to begin with and their goal now is to try and bribe the electorate. Next budget will be the election trigger and will be the “we dare you” scenario. That won’t be until March or April.

 

[Remius]

In 2013 the CAF, while on dom ops in High-River Alberta, initially assisted the RCMP who were confiscating firearms. Some of which were allegedly out in the open, some found after the RCMP returned to the residences 3 or 4 times (after consulting the defunct long arm registry they were ordered to destroy and disobeyed).

Not by any lawful order or direction. When the CoC found out they stopped it. It was local commanders and units not knowing or following their ROEs. Trust me, I’ve been on a few dom ops to know that a lot of people have no clue what we can actually do and not do. This is why more training is needed and thankfully that is happening a bit more robustly.

From a technical point of view using dom ops as a validation ex makes sense. I can see the Liberals tasking the CAF with assisting the RCMP with collecting firearms by providing logistical support.

Again. It’s a ridiculous theory. Rebel News actually showed up on our last one saying it was to train for gun grabs and vaccine enforcement. That should tell you enough…

 

[Good2Golf]

Not by any lawful order or direction. When the CoC found out they stopped it. It was local commanders and units not knowing or following their ROEs. Trust me, I’ve been on a few dom ops to know that a lot of people have no clue what we can actually do and not do. This is why more training is needed and thankfully that is happening a bit more robustly.

And a laminated copy of the ROE taped to one’s rifle butt stock.

 

[Remius]

And a laminated copy of the ROE taped to one’s rifle butt stock.

Haven’t had to deploy with a rifle on any of them. But ROE cards help a bit.

 

[dimsum]

Haven’t had to deploy with a rifle on any of them. But ROE cards help a bit.

I’ve had both.

 

[Haggis]

In response to an Order Paper question, the Liberal goverment released that as of June 17, 2024, 723 firearms identifed in the May 2020 OIC and amendments have been voluntarily surrendered. 66 by businesses and 657 by individuals. The records don't show the circumstances of the surrenders. No indication of any compensation being paid out in the government's response.

 

[Remius]

In response to an Order Paper question, the Liberal goverment released that as of June 17, 2024, 723 firearms identifed in the May 2020 OIC and amendments have been voluntarily surrendered. 66 by businesses and 657 by individuals. The records don't show the circumstances of the surrenders. No indication of any compensation being paid out in the government's response.

I’m curious if that includes anyone facing charges like domestic violence or sexual assault and are required to surrender any firearms. I guess that might not be “voluntary” though. But say, someone is charged and subsequently acquitted or found not guilty but are told “hey, we already have these and we’ll save you the trouble” sort of thing and those fire arms are not returned. That would skew the success or non success of the program.

 

[Good2Golf]

I’m curious if that includes anyone facing charges like domestic violence or sexual assault and are required to surrender any firearms. I guess that might not be “voluntary” though. But say, someone is charged and subsequently acquitted or found not guilty but are told “hey, we already have these and we’ll save you the trouble” sort of thing and those fire arms are not returned. That would skew the success or non success of the program.

Like, how many of those were say, Glock 17s with the serial numbers filed off, because the catch-and-release misunderstood youth felt guilty?

 

[Haggis]

I’m curious if that includes anyone facing charges like domestic violence or sexual assault and are required to surrender any firearms. I guess that might not be “voluntary” though. But say, someone is charged and subsequently acquitted or found not guilty but are told “hey, we already have these and we’ll save you the trouble” sort of thing and those fire arms are not returned. That would skew the success or non success of the program.

Like, how many of those were say, Glock 17s with the serial numbers filed off, because the catch-and-release misunderstood youth felt guilty?

No. Those were reported separately as "seized for public safety reasons" or "seized - criminal investigation".