The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Fishbone Jones]

Have to wonder how fast this would get through the senate

The Liberal and "Independent" senators will do their best to stymie any attempts by the CPC to roll back the "progress" Trudeau has made on gun control. C-71 took almost two years to pass.

The House has the option of placing a time to report on the bill sent to the Senate. They can say, "You have one month." If it's suspected that the committee is holding up a bill, a member of the house can bring it to the attention of the House and have a date to report imposed.

There is ways around the Senate sitting on it. Likewise, the House is not bound to accept the amendments of the Senate and a majority can pass the bill as written.

 

[Haggis]

If theyre not going to make rolling back firearm bans. There's not much point in me voting for them

They will reverse them. The problem is that the Liberals have crafted the current laws in such a way that reversing them properly is not simple or quick.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

They will reverse them. The problem is that the Liberals have crafted the current laws in such a way that reversing them properly is not simple or quick.

They should have enough of a majority to ram any bill they want, through the House whenever they want.

There's lots of consulting to be done. Drafts of the legislation need to be looked at and changed. The new firearms committee needs to be invited and picked. Lots of prep work before the discussion even comes public.

The new government has lots of criminal investigations to start, committees into malfeasance need to be undertaken. A huge ugly audit of our financial house needs doing. Taxes reminded, bad legislation negated.

I'm sure there will be a few people that will be seconded to start on the firearms file, but it's not a priority.

Maybe some short term fixes, like classification and transportation so we can start using our guns again, but in the main, I expect to see not a whole lot for about the first year.

 

[Fabius]

Short term ie first sitting of parliament, reintroduce Bill C42 from 2015 immediately upon winning power. Once that has royal assent remove the OICs.

Concurrently work on the complete replacement of the entire architecture.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Short term ie first sitting of parliament, reintroduce Bill C42 from 2015 immediately upon winning power. Once that has royal assent remove the OICs.

Concurrently work on the complete replacement of the entire architecture.

OIC's are tied to the Act they were written under, the new Act will have to specifically mention which ones are null and void, as I recall?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think the CPC should make this a priority. Biases admitted.

I think most Canadian firearms owners, myself included, are enthusiastically in support of the CPC but we're also keeping a side eye on them tackling this. And their failure on this file will cost them, the CPC, dearly.

 

[Eaglelord17]

The House has the option of placing a time to report on the bill sent to the Senate. They can say, "You have one month." If it's suspected that the committee is holding up a bill, a member of the house can bring it to the attention of the House and have a date to report imposed.

There is ways around the Senate sitting on it. Likewise, the House is not bound to accept the amendments of the Senate and a majority can pass the bill as written.

The House of Commons can put whatever they want on it, the Senate isn’t bound to listen to them if they choose not to. They aren’t controlled by the House of Commons, their power comes from the Governor General (who appoints their members) via the King. Technically they are the equal of the House of Commons. Just because they choose not to act like it doesn’t mean they can’t.

They could kill a bill dead in it’s tracks majority or not from the House of Commons. It maybe considered a constitutional crisis if they did so, but technically it is within their powers.

Just as they can create bills but the House of Commons can kill it, both houses need to be in agreement to pass a law.

They should have enough of a majority to ram any bill they want, through the House whenever they want.

There's lots of consulting to be done. Drafts of the legislation need to be looked at and changed. The new firearms committee needs to be invited and picked. Lots of prep work before the discussion even comes public.

The new government has lots of criminal investigations to start, committees into malfeasance need to be undertaken. A huge ugly audit of our financial house needs doing. Taxes reminded, bad legislation negated.

I'm sure there will be a few people that will be seconded to start on the firearms file, but it's not a priority.

Maybe some short term fixes, like classification and transportation so we can start using our guns again, but in the main, I expect to see not a whole lot for about the first year.

There is no short term fix, they can’t just undo a OIC as per the legislation, rather they have to put a bill up in the house of commons, put it through the senate and get the governor general to sign it. However long that takes depends on how long all the groups decide to hold it up.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I'll buy you a case of Toller Gold if it lives passed the end of Mar home boy.

I agree that this is going to go nowhere. Nobody up here in my neck of the woods is taking anything the Feds say seriously. The Feds also have no mechanism to actually collect anything, especially in rural areas.

Where I live, almost every single household has firearms. There are like a dozen police officers for the entire area. They would need to bring in a Battalion to actually even make an attempt at confiscating anything, as the ratio of police to people is so low. And with how unpopular this current Government is in these parts, I would expect Law Enforcement to not receive a warm welcome.

I think they have to. The CPC owns the firearms community. And they can use it as a cost cutter measure.



Portapique didn't have that affect. It back fired on them. He did it all with illegal guns. Anywho, I think the tides have shifted on this.

All Portapique did was place a big bullseye on the RCMP in Nova Scotia. The RCMP are one or two more screw ups away from being run out of a bunch of provinces.

 

[Weinie]

I always forget that crooked bitch.

FTFY

 

[captloadie]

Given all the other things that the collective "we" want the CPC to fix, this will likely drop further down the list. It won't be an issue in the next election for them, they don't need the gun owner vote. They can just not push to enforce the OICs by law enforcement, which in the end makes both sides of the argument both happy and unhappy at the same time (no one is losing their guns, and no one is getting new ones that are "banned")

If I'm the CPC, I wait until year 3 of sitting in power, and then start work on the file, and slow roll it into year 4. Then towards the end of year 4, and into year 5, the election year, you hype the fact of how you rolled back the previous governments restrictions, and it is fresh in the mind of voters when they go to the polls are try to decide who to vote for based on what "their" party has done for them lately.

 

[Rifleman62]

Possibly this may not be a priority for the CPC. Allow a cooling off period otherwise people may be hunting Liberals.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Unless they have a draft bill ready to go, expect them to take a year to prepare it and push it through committee. Even with a draft bill done, minimum 6 months. I suspect they do it early on and then move on to economic things, they will not want to change the Firearm Act, to close to the next election. Firearms are only a CPC plank, because of the Liberal stance of the subject.

 

[Mills Bomb]

The Conservatives always talk a big game about "lawful gun owners" but at what point have they ever done something that resulted in access to previously restricted / prohibited firearms? As far as I'm aware, they've never really done anything to get stuff back in the hands of law abiding gun enthusiasts.

I understand they scrapped the long gun registry, but it didn't change what you can own or what you could do with those firearms.

Scrapping the long gun registry only results in cutting out the transfer and registration process of non-restricted firearms. This was during a period of government cuts that were aimed at being cost saving.

The CPC and Liberal's are going to keep milking this thing, the Liberal's always have some list of new models to ban to look "progressive" on the issue (Even if there's no real evidence the stuff they are banning is any more deadly) and the CPC is going to keep on spinning how they are the party for legal gun owners, while not undoing the bans since they know it's damaging politically.

Historically speaking, all you really get with the CPC is no additional fresh bans until next time the Liberal's are in power and use the topic for their political advantage.

In the meantime, America continues to mass produce unregistered firearms which are smuggled into Canada (And Mexico) and used in crimes all the time, usually with weak punishments. The incoming US president loves to talk about fentanyl entering the USA, but nobody in the LPC or CPC wants to even attempt to raise the subject of obvious gun production and gun smuggling that results in deaths in Canada or Mexico.

 

[KevinB]

The Conservatives always talk a big game about "lawful gun owners" but at what point have they ever done something that resulted in access to previously restricted / prohibited firearms? As far as I'm aware, they've never really done anything to get stuff back in the hands of law abiding gun enthusiasts.

I understand they scrapped the long gun registry, but it didn't change what you can own or what you could do with those firearms.

Scrapping the long gun registry only results in cutting out the transfer and registration process of non-restricted firearms. This was during a period of government cuts that were aimed at being cost saving.

The CPC and Liberal's are going to keep milking this thing, the Liberal's always have some list of new models to ban to look "progressive" on the issue (Even if there's no real evidence the stuff they are banning is any more deadly) and the CPC is going to keep on spinning how they are the party for legal gun owners, while not undoing the bans since they know it's damaging politically.

Historically speaking, all you really get with the CPC is no additional fresh bans until next time the Liberal's are in power and use the topic for their political advantage.

In the meantime, America continues to mass produce unregistered firearms which are smuggled into Canada (And Mexico) and used in crimes all the time, usually with weak punishments. The incoming US president loves to talk about fentanyl entering the USA, but nobody in the LPC or CPC wants to even attempt to raise the subject of obvious gun production and gun smuggling that results in deaths in Canada or Mexico.

What planet do you live on?

 

[Mills Bomb]

Well... In all seriousness when have the CPC ever undone any ban?

I can't think of any time in Canadian history where things were "reversed" in terms of weapons you can own. It only goes one way in Canada, they just simply continue narrowing down what you can own until all anyone is going to be left with is a bolt-action. It's already happened in many other countries as well. Those who have stuff will likely be able to keep it until they die as the government also seems to always cheap out on any sort of actual buy-back. Essentially, gun owners just get screwed here.

Why would it be any different this time? It's politically unwise for the CPC to unban previously prohibited firearms and they know that. Canada just doesn't have the same gun culture as the USA, so unbanning guns doesn't really work as a political platform up here.

I agree the LPC bans are bogus, but reversing them won't be easy and honestly seems pretty unlikely, regardless of how ridiculous and ineffective they are.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

My guess they rewrite one of the previous versions and state they are going back to a Status Quo that had previously worked. Gun ownership was climbing and they will likely set things up to encourage that so you will see the gun community grow and get more diverse to the point where gun bans will become politically unprofitable.

 

[Haggis]

The Mulroney/Campbell PC's presided over the implementation of Bill C-17, which brought in magazine restrictions and solidified the automatic firearms ban by making any firearm capable of being converted (e.g. the FN FAL family) prohibited. C-17 was in response to the Polytechnique massacre.

Well... In all seriousness when have the CPC ever undone any ban?
I can't think of any time in Canadian history where things were "reversed" in terms of weapons you can own.

The CPC's Bill C-42 in 2014 lifted the ban on the Swiss Arms Classic Green Carbine. So, yes, they have reversed bans in the past.

It only goes one way in Canada, they just simply continue narrowing down what you can own until all anyone is going to be left with is a bolt-action. It's already happened in many other countries as well. Those who have stuff will likely be able to keep it until they die as the government also seems to always cheap out on any sort of actual buy-back. Essentially, gun owners just get screwed here.

The Liberals have taken great pains to make the reversals very, very difficult this time compared to 2014. An OIC won't do it this time around.

Why would it be any different this time? It's politically unwise for the CPC to unban previously prohibited firearms and they know that. Canada just doesn't have the same gun culture as the USA, so unbanning guns doesn't really work as a political platform up here.

Gun ownership is growing in Canada despite the best efforts of the Liberals to demonize it. The number of PAL holders is at it's highest level ever and more women and new Canadians are entering the shooting sports. I see this every time I run a new member training session at my gun club.

I agree the LPC bans are bogus, but reversing them won't be easy and honestly seems pretty unlikely, regardless of how ridiculous and ineffective they are.

Handguns have not been "banned". As a show of goodwill, the first thing the CPC could do is lift the freeze on legal handgun transfers. That might be possible via OIC.

 

[suffolkowner]

i fail to see what the difficulty will be for the CPC's. They will in all likelihood have in excess of 200 seats. Do it and do it quick and get it over with. To not do so risks fracturing the conservative vote again

 

[Eaglelord17]

The CPC's Bill C-42 in 2014 lifted the ban on the Swiss Arms Classic Green Carbine. So, yes, they have reversed bans in the past.

Just some semantics but that wasn't a 'ban'. There was no OIC or declaration that the Swiss Arms Classic Green or CZ 858s were prohibited by name, rather they were reclassified to accurately follow Canadian law by the firearms lab. The CZ 858s as converted autos and the Swiss Arms as converted autos/550 variants.

Not that I agree with the classifications in the first place, the whole converted auto category is stupid to me, if it's semi-auto it's a semi auto whether or not it was originally one (and interestingly enough that is how the Europeans who generally have tighter controls view it). It is also why the reclassifications happened as they just took actual VZ 58 receivers and welded in the blocks to prevent full auto parts from entering, and the Classic Greens some were Swiss service 550s which were converted to semi-auto only.

 

[Haggis]

i fail to see what the difficulty will be for the CPC's. They will in all likelihood have in excess of 200 seats. Do it and do it quick and get it over with. To not do so risks fracturing the conservative vote again

The issue is that the legislative process in both houses is not quick and the Liberals (through the Independent and Progressive Senators Groups) still dominate the Senate.