The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Eaglelord17]

We never have the right to own firearms. I stand to be corrected.

That is debatable. Clearly it is acknowledged to some degree thanks to aboriginal treaties (right to hunt, etc.). The English Bill of Rights 1689 also to some degree applies to Canada and that included the right to be armed.

Mind you the supreme court ruled against this argument, that being said I still think a valid legal argument can be made on pre-1867 rights in Canada.

Personally I believe that the right to own firearms isn’t itself a right, rather the right to self defence is, or life, liberty, and security of the person. I also believe in property rights even though the government tries arguing that doesn’t exist, again I would consider it a pre-1867 right. Owning firearms I would consider a extension those rights.

 

[suffolkowner]

That is debatable. Clearly it is acknowledged to some degree thanks to aboriginal treaties (right to hunt, etc.). The English Bill of Rights 1689 also to some degree applies to Canada and that included the right to be armed.

Mind you the supreme court ruled against this argument, that being said I still think a valid legal argument can be made on pre-1867 rights in Canada.

Personally I believe that the right to own firearms isn’t itself a right, rather the right to self defence is, or life, liberty, and security of the person. I also believe in property rights even though the government tries arguing that doesn’t exist, again I would consider it a pre-1867 right. Owning firearms I would consider a extension those rights.

Property rights in the Bill of Rights?
If we dont have property rights, can i have my house taken? My ???

 

[Cloud Cover]

Property rights in the Bill of Rights?
If we dont have property rights, can i have my house taken? My ???

Yes

 

[KevinB]

There where Firearms Rights in the BNA and earlier provisions.

PET ensured those where written out when the Constitution was ‘repatriated’.

 

[Cloud Cover]

There where Firearms Rights in the BNA and earlier provisions.

PET ensured those where written out when the Constitution was ‘repatriated’.

You know, settling Western Canada was a lot tougher and just as violent (but on a smaller scale) than the US.
When I look at historical pictures of the Okanagan as it was a cattle staging area for the northern gold rush area, EVERYBODY was packing heat. How that never made it into preserved cultural right when the West entered confederation is baffling to me. Even ranchibg pictures right up into the 1950’s there were Garands and Tommy guns hanging around. I’d like to drag the bottom of some these lakes, but meth lab kit is likely piled over top of the good stuff.

 

[OldSolduer]

We do not have the right to "keep and bear arms" as the USA does.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Property rights in the Bill of Rights?
If we dont have property rights, can i have my house taken? My ???

Look up civil forfeiture laws, the abuse of them is disgusting. Simple example being Bruce Montague, a man who fought our stupid firearms laws and lost.

 

[KevinB]

We do not have the right to "keep and bear arms" as the USA does.

You basically used to…

 

[Halifax Tar]

Look up civil forfeiture laws, the abuse of them is disgusting. Simple example being Bruce Montague, a man who fought our stupid firearms laws and lost.

Interesting fellow

BruceMontague.ca - About - Of Freedom and Tyranny

 

[Sprinting Thistle]

Property rights in the Bill of Rights?
If we dont have property rights, can i have my house taken? My ???

The more recent case of Frank Meyers is a prime example. If the government wants your land, there is nothing you can do to stop them taking it. They expropriated his 90 hectare farm land to build a new location for JTF2 outside Trenton. The unit never did move there. His family had lived there for 200 years.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Not getting into the 'for' or 'against' argument here on the gun buyback - but - if i was advising the PM I would ensure that ever individual case of a firearm being bought back did NOT result in a financial loss to the owner, at a minimum this would be the entry point of the buyback. Why rub salt in the wound? At least back these individuals whole financially. It removes an irritant and a talking point from the opposition.

There isn't enough money in the program to buy all the guns back even at the deflated Gov offerings.

This could have been such an easy win for the Libs and really move into CPC territory.

 

[Czech_pivo]

There isn't enough money in the program to buy all the guns back even at the deflated Gov offerings.

This could have been such an easy win for the Libs and really move into CPC territory.

You add more money into the program.

Its a different Sheriff in town now.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You add more money into the program.

Thats what you think they will do ? Or thats what you would do ?

Its a different Sheriff in town now.

Meah, minus the snazzy sock I am underwhelmed. Seems like the same LPC we all know and love.

 

[NavyShooter]

Rumbles floating about that the Cape Breton police are recalling their police chief after he unilaterally decided to support the gun ban confiscation program without consulting his officers. Also rumours abound that he is the BIL of the local Liberal MP...

Maybe the gun confiscation has hit another snag.

Good.

 

[OldSolduer]

You add more money into the program.

Its a different Sheriff in town now.

The cost IIRC is 742 million? Double that.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The cost IIRC is 742 million? Double that.

Quadruple it.

At least…

 

[Halifax Tar]

Rumbles floating about that the Cape Breton police are recalling their police chief after he unilaterally decided to support the gun ban confiscation program without consulting his officers. Also rumours abound that he is the BIL of the local Liberal MP...

Maybe the gun confiscation has hit another snag.

Good.

I will be interested to see how many and what gets turned over. I saw a good sized protest about this in CB yesterday.

I've heard the same rumors of the CB PC.

 

[NavyShooter]

They've offered $1500 for a specific type of firearm which I am aware is worth closer to $10K, and if the accessories for it are included, it'd be worth well over 15K.

If you're going to take someone's M1 Carbine, and that's the only rifle they have which shoots .30 Carbine ammo, are they going to buy back the ammo as well? Spare magazines? Scope mount? Airborne jump sleeve? Beach Landing plastic sealed bag? Slings of 4 types and manufacture? Accessory stock? Instruction manual and collector's grade book?

They've made that whole pile of stuff effectively worthless to the owner, and are offering a paltry sum instead. If they were to actually buy out the complete value of the firearm(s) they'd be more than quadruple what they're offering.

The unspoken part of this whole process has been the decimation of the gun industry in Canada - how many dealers have closed up in the past 5 years? How many manufacturers have closed down? How many gun smiths have shut up shop? How many gun clubs have closed their doors? How many civilian shooting ranges have given up and closed?

The individual guns aren't the target. Never has been.

It's been the decimation of the civilian gun industry.

And they're succeeding.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Thats what you think they will do ? Or thats what you would do ?



Meah, minus the snazzy sock I am underwhelmed. Seems like the same LPC we all know and love.

I'm leaning towards that is what they will do.

I'm in the camp that more has been achieved in the last 6 months than has been achieved in the last 6yrs.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I'm leaning towards that is what they will do.

I'm in the camp that more has been achieved in the last 6 months than has been achieved in the last 6yrs.

That is not a glowing endorsement.