The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Eaglelord17]

The NS Gov does the same thing for my DL. And my various vehicle registrations.

IMHO not knowing your ID expired is a copout. People need to be an adult and manage their lives. Failure to do that should limit thier privileges until things can be corrected.

PALs shouldn’t expire. Maybe acquiring new firearms should be restricted, but simply owning your property shouldn’t become illegal just because a licence expired.

The government doesn’t come take your car because your drivers licence expired, you just can’t drive it on public roads.

 

[Haggis]

PALs shouldn’t expire. Maybe acquiring new firearms should be restricted, but simply owning your property shouldn’t become illegal just because a licence expired.

The government doesn’t come take your car because your drivers licence expired, you just can’t drive it on public roads.

In the case of a car, you are licensing both the car and the driver, but anyone can drive it as long as they and the car are licensed.

 

[Eaglelord17]

In the case of a car, you are licensing both the car and the driver, but anyone can drive it as long as they and the car are licensed.

Yes but my drivers licence doesn’t expire and suddenly my car becomes illegal to possess and can result in jail time.

To me the PAL should be like the old FAC (firearms acquisition certificate) where you can possess your firearms with a expired FAC but cannot buy new ones. Or the PAL should never expire and can’t be revoked without a valid reason.

I can’t see a valid reason why it expires currently other than bureaucracy. If the government has a reason to believe that you shouldn’t have a PAL they should be initiating the process to remove it, not just ‘oh 5 years is up your now a criminal’.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I can’t see a valid reason why it expires currently other than bureaucracy. If the government has a reason to believe that you shouldn’t have a PAL they should be initiating the process to remove it, not just ‘oh 5 years is up your now a criminal’.

Perhaps because an individual's personal history and conjugal status has changed?

 

[Eaglelord17]

Perhaps because an individual's personal history and conjugal status has changed?

View attachment 98516

Again you should have to have a reason. Not be fishing for a reason. They should be proactive not reactive with this.

Say I get divorced 3 months after PAL renewal, I still have almost 5 years before renewing. Thats something you wouldn’t even have to report on renewal unless it happened within the last two years. So it is less of a issue within that 3 years span than the other two? Arbitrary and worthless as a data metric.

If the only way to find out I have a peace bond is self reporting up to 5 years later, your system is broken making this whole endeavour a waste of everyones time.

Property should not be subject to randomly becoming illegal over a time span. This isn’t applying for a licence to acquire your property, this is property you already legally acquired and possess.

And unless proven you shouldn’t possess that property anymore (threatening people, clear mental health diagnoses, court orders, etc.), it shouldn’t be subject to arbitrary forfeiture.

 

[Halifax Tar]

PALs shouldn’t expire. Maybe acquiring new firearms should be restricted, but simply owning your property shouldn’t become illegal just because a licence expired.

The government doesn’t come take your car because your drivers licence expired, you just can’t drive it on public roads.

If one cant be an adult and track when one's licenses are coming up for renewal I have no issue with privileges being revoked. Do the same for cars too, I don't mind. I also renew my licenses and registrations on time.

And I have no problem having to renew them.

 

[Booter]

Yes but my drivers licence doesn’t expire and suddenly my car becomes illegal to possess and can result in jail time.

To me the PAL should be like the old FAC (firearms acquisition certificate) where you can possess your firearms with a expired FAC but cannot buy new ones. Or the PAL should never expire and can’t be revoked without a valid reason.

I can’t see a valid reason why it expires currently other than bureaucracy. If the government has a reason to believe that you shouldn’t have a PAL they should be initiating the process to remove it, not just ‘oh 5 years is up your now a criminal’.

It may be a left over thing that had a purpose a long while ago. But I don’t disagree with you now. The issue of course, with anything related to government processes is the unintended optics.

If you make life easier for firearms owners, you are supporting firearms ownership.

If you support firearms ownership, and someone links your process to death you are to blame. If you inherit a system and keep it moving without change you can blame others

 

[Eaglelord17]

If one cant be an adult and track when one's licenses are coming up for renewal I have no issue with privileges being revoked. Do the same for cars too, I don't mind. I also renew my licenses and registrations on time.

And I have no problem having to renew them.

This is where you go wrong, ownership of property isn’t a privilege it is a right and should not be deprived of without a valid legal reason.

If you do not believe in the right to own property, well comrade have I got a good political system to sell you.

It may be a left over thing that had a purpose a long while ago. But I don’t disagree with you now. The issue of course, with anything related to government processes is the unintended optics.

If you make life easier for firearms owners, you are supporting firearms ownership.

If you support firearms ownership, and someone links your process to death you are to blame. If you inherit a system and keep it moving without change you can blame others

Your mistaking the intent behind our firearms laws. It is designed to make it difficult and slowly but surely remove them from society. The designers of said laws made it very clear that was the goal.

 

[Halifax Tar]

This is where you go wrong, ownership of property isn’t a privilege it is a right and should not be deprived of without a valid legal reason.

If you do not believe in the right to own property, well comrade have I got a good political system to sell you.

Don't be so extremist. Every bit of property you own comes with some sort of fees or taxes for that property and if not paid you will loose that private property.

You wont get me to agree that licensing and renewals is a step to far for firearms ownership.

 

[brihard]

Probably time to split a bunch of replies from active shooter back over to gun control thread?

 

[Haggis]

Probably time to split a bunch of replies from active shooter back over to gun control thread?

The discussion stemmed from the Mom's PAL allegedly being expired. Maybe those posts should stay while the ones discussing licensing in general can be moved.

 

[brihard]

The discussion stemmed from the Mom's PAL allegedly being expired. Maybe those posts should stay while the ones discussing licensing in general can be moved.

Yup, absolutely.

 

[Jarnhamar]

You wont get me to agree that liscensing and renewals is a step to far for firearms ownership.

I'm with you here. There's always the component that the government will tax everything they can, but having a licencing and regulatory demands attached to potentially dangerous activities is important. Driving, shooting, sky diving, food vendor, day car, and so on. Considering the amount of damage (and death) that gets caused by people who are unlicensed and still own/drive vehicles, there might even be an argument to make licensing part and parcel with ownership, like firearms.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm with you here. There's always the component that the government will tax everything they can, but having a licencing and regulatory demands attached to potentially dangerous activities is important. Driving, shooting, sky diving, food vendor, day car, and so on. Considering the amount of damage (and death) that gets caused by people who are unlicensed and still own/drive vehicles, there might even be an argument to make licensing part and parcel with ownership, like firearms.

You lost me.

 

[Jarnhamar]

You lost me.

I'm agreeing with this.

You wont get me to agree that licensing and renewals is a step to far for firearms ownership.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Probably time to split a bunch of replies from active shooter back over to gun control thread?

Please stand by ....

Army.ca Staff

 

[The Bread Guy]

Permit-only discussion bits moved from the Active Shooter thread - back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

Army.ca Staff

 

[Colin Parkinson]

This is where you go wrong, ownership of property isn’t a privilege it is a right and should not be deprived of without a valid legal reason.

If you do not believe in the right to own property, well comrade have I got a good political system to sell you.

Your mistaking the intent behind our firearms laws. It is designed to make it difficult and slowly but surely remove them from society. The designers of said laws made it very clear that was the goal.

At least I can give Allan Rock, points for being honest. Every Liberal government or Ministers have lied repeatedly to legal gun owners.

 

[OldSolduer]

Property rights as far as I know were never written into the Charter at the bequest of Ed Broadbent - NDP of course.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Property rights as far as I know were never written into the Charter at the bequest of Ed Broadbent - NDP of course.

The government likes it not being written in, theoretically allows them to do things they wouldn’t otherwise.

That being said, I would argue that property rights are a ‘pre-1867’ right and the fact it is written into the Canadian Bill of Rights reinforces that argument. Clearly it is a recognized right even if they refuse to formalize it.