The Great Gun Control Debate

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm not trying to mitigate the seriousness of the offence. Simply stating that it's nowhere near a one off. I also posted it because it's not worth your blood pressure to worry about. PERSEC is a definite problem everywhere. This is simply another in a string of government leaks, from all parties. VAC itself is famous for it's leaks of personal info to public recipients. Heads will roll, I'm sure. Before twisting yourself in a knot, let's give it a wait and see approach for now. You might be surprised about the outcome, with all your angst for naught.

However, if you need to unload to feel better, feel free to do that too.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Sounds like some fingers are being pointed at Brad Trost.

cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/conservative-party-membership-list-trost-leak-nfa-1.4152275


The NFA continue to not explain themselves, which is on par for them.

 

[Lightguns]

New re-interpretation of Blank Receivers from pieces of metal to firearms:

Information on Receiver Blanks (80% Receivers)

Receiver blanks are firearms as defined in Section 2 of the Criminal Code for the following reasons:

A receiver blank is a nearly complete receiver of a firearm and falls within the adaptability clause of the definition of firearm.
The manufacture of a receiver blank has proceeded to the point where it is no longer useful for any purpose other than the receiver of a firearm; receiver blanks are only destined to be firearm receivers.
Receiver blanks are available as separate components but are often sold as part of a kit, which includes the receiver blank plus the all necessary equipment and tools to complete the receiver and the spare parts to assemble the receiver into a working firearm. They can be classified as non-restricted, restricted or prohibited based on Section 84(1) of the Criminal Code. The most common in Canada are for Colt M1911, SIG 226 and Glock 17 pattern handguns (all restricted firearms); and receiver blanks for AK-47 and AR-15/M16 pattern rifles (both prohibited firearms).

When a receiver blank is inspected by the Canadian Firearms Program and determined to be a firearm, it will be published in the Firearms Reference Table (FRT).

Future import and retail sales of receiver blanks will be available only to individuals or businesses that have the appropriate firearms licence. Restricted and prohibited receiver blanks must be registered.

Affected products

The table below identifies many of the receiver blanks known to be in circulation. Variations of the products listed are possible. The classification listed in the table applies to the unmodified receiver blank. The classification of a firearm made from one of the receiver blanks may differ.

AK-47 assault rifle ------> Prohibited Many variations possible
AK-74 assault rifle ------> Prohibited
AMD-63 assault rifle ------> Prohibited Variation of the AK-47
AMD-65 assault rifle ------> Prohibited Variation of the AK-47
AR-15 (M16) rifle ------> Prohibited The receiver blank can be made into either an AR-15 rifle or an M16 assault rifle
Beretta 92 pistol ------> Restricted
Beretta AR70 assault rifle ------> Prohibited
Carl Gustav m/45 submachine gun ------> Prohibited
CETME rifle ------> Prohibited
Colt M1911 pistol ------> Restricted Many variations possible
CZ 26 submachine gun ------> Prohibited
FBP 9 submachine gun ------> Prohibited
Galil assault rifle ------> Prohibited
Glock pistol ------> Restricted Many variations possible
HK 91 rifle ------> Prohibited
HK G3 rifle ------> Prohibited
KP 44 submachine gun ------> Prohibited Similar to the PPS-43
Krinkov assault rifle ------> Prohibited Variation of the AK-47
MG 42 light machine gun ------> Prohibited
M249 light machine gun ------> Prohibited
M3 (M3A1) "grease gun" submachine gun ------>Prohibited
PKM machine gun ------> Prohibited
PPS 43 submachine gun ------> Prohibited
PPSH 41 submachine gun ------> Prohibited
Ruger 10/22 ------> Non-restricted
SIG P226 pistol ------> Restricted
SIG P228 pistol ------> Restricted
SIG P229 pistol ------> Restricted
Sten Mark II submachine gun ------> Prohibited
Sten Mark III submachine gun ------> Prohibited
Sten Mark V submachine gun ------> Prohibited
Steyr MPi-69 submachine gun ------> Prohibited
Suomi submachine gun ------> Prohibited
Swedish K submachine gun ------> Prohibited Similar to Carl Gustav M/45
Tantal assault rifle ------> Prohibited
Vz58 assault rifle ------> Prohibited
Vz61 Scorpion submachine gun ------> Prohibited Many variations possible
Yugoslavian M56 submachine gun ------> Prohibited
Zastava M72 light machine gun ------> Prohibited

Section 2 has a phrase which says "anything that can be adapted as a firearm" which the basis for this new interpretation. You AR guys making your own receiver will need a prohibit status til you mil it out so it cannot accept a full auto trigger group. 

 

[my72jeep]

There in a nutshell is the issue the receiver will allways be able to mill out for full auto. It can never be un milled.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

A car antennae and a rubber band can be adapted to be a firearm. Sounds like they are banning these before they confiscate everything else.

This is just typical liebral fuckery. Making criminals out of law abiding citizens after the fact. These 80% blanks have been available forever. They weren't considered firearms because they wouldn't function and you needed tooling and enough expertise to use the tooling. These aren't something the average Joe Blow sits down at night in front of the TV and completes.

If you have the expertise and tooling to finish one of these properly, you don't need a 80% lower. All you need is a block of aluminum.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Sounds like some fingers are being pointed at Brad Trost.

cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/conservative-party-membership-list-trost-leak-nfa-1.4152275


The NFA continue to not explain themselves, which is on par for them.

I've contacted the NFA on FB. I'm a member. I asked for an explanation of the list fiasco and the admins took my post down without answering. Reposted it last night, hit send and got a new banner. They are now moderating me and all my posts have to go by an Admin first. I asked for a PM from the Executive and never got that either. I'm all done with them and cancelling my membership. These guys aren't any better than the government they are supposed to be fighting.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Genuinely sorry to hear you were treated that way Recceguy. I was too in the past, they banned and attempted to doxx me. The NFA have a scorched Earth policy it seems. They censor paying members until issues and members go away. They have a lot of money because a large portion of their membership donate and forget, never following them on social media. Lots of drama a while ago with questionable book keeping, exects unjustly fired for demanding to see the records, new "president friendly" directors placed in jobs without being voted in per the bylaws. Whole thing went to court. Can't find much about it anymore, I'd guess they paid one of those companies to delete any trace of it on the net.

They've "built cases" against members who ask too many questions and even build profiles about them  :-\

A while ago the NFA was set to speak out/testify against bill C-51. The conservatives made some back door promises to Sheldon Clare and he pulled out of testifying at the last minute, without consulting membership or exects alike.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bill-c-51-hearings-national-firearms-association-pulls-out-1.3003782

Anyone who questioned it on their facebook page was banned and blocked.

 

[Loachman]

I was a member for many years, but let my membership lapse during that period of schisms and infighting.

I received a letter and application as a result of the misuse of the Conservative membership list. I did not rejoin, as I cannot condone that.

 

[my72jeep]

Two years ago I asked for the financials, as a member in good standing it was my right. I received a cheque returning my membership dues.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Genuinely sorry to hear you were treated that way Recceguy. I was too in the past, they banned and attempted to doxx me. The NFA have a scorched Earth policy it seems.

Thanks for the thought Jarn, but no worry. I don't give a flying fig for liars, cheats and cowards and it sounds like these guys encompass all three of those traits. They can stop me posting about their bullshit on their frequency but they can't stop me from posting anywhere else, like maybe 'Why I Hate the NFA' when it goes up on FaceBook.  8)

 

[SeaKingTacco]

So who are the reputable firearms organizations in Canada? I seem to be having trouble finding one that is actually upfront about its finances or its operations.

 

[Jarnhamar]

So who are the reputable firearms organizations in Canada? I seem to be having trouble finding one that is actually upfront about its finances or its operations.

CCFR seem pretty good.

When the NFA had a schism the rebels formed the NFA-Reloaded. They had another schism and some of them formed the CCFR.
[ https://firearmrights.ca/en/home/ ]
I thought they were another bullshit group but they seemed to have learned from the mistakes of the pastand not got involved in social media piss ups.



In other news the RCMP made AR-15 80% lower receivers prohibited.
Meaning overnight Lots of Canadian firearm owners are now criminals, joining the Beowulf and 10/22  magazine scumbags.

https://firearmrights.ca/en/rcmp-once-again-create-criminals-out-of-gun-owners/

Ottawa, June 14, 2017

Gun owners across the country are once again frustrated with the Liberal government handing over the decision making process to law enforcement, a duty usually reserved for elected officials.

Today, RCMP Firearms Program posted a new memo on their website with yet another re-interpretation of legislation surrounding firearms-re-classification of 80% receivers.
Tracey Wilson, VP of Public Relations and CCFR lobbyist sent a communication to Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale’s office immediately asking why the continuous bombardment on law abiding gun owners is allowed to continue. At the very least, some kind of notification should be sent to gun owners who are now in possession of a prohibited device if they own an 80% receiver for an AR-15, the world’s most popular sporting rifle. No answer has come as of the time of this posting.

 

[Eaglelord17]

CSSA always seemed to be the more moderate of the organizations and actually was able to negotiate with the previous government.

 

[Halifax Tar]

In other news the RCMP made AR-15 80% lower receivers prohibited.
Meaning overnight Los of Canadian firearm owners are now criminals, joining the Beowulf and 10/22  magazine scumbags.

https://firearmrights.ca/en/rcmp-once-again-create-criminals-out-of-gun-owners/

Please educate me.  What is an 80% lower ? 

 

[Lightguns]

Please educate me.  What is an 80% lower ?

A hunk of aluminum in the shape of the AR lower but not fully drilled out yet.  Some folks like to built completely from drawing board.  Everyone who does registers their completed work.  There has been one crime in Canada with an AR and that gun was used in crime nearly a decade after it was stolen. 

 

[Kat Stevens]

So, does this mean that, by extension, all AR platforms are now prohibited?  Cops making the laws, what could go wrong?

 

[The Bread Guy]

... they can't stop me from posting anywhere else, like maybe 'Why I Hate the NFA' when it goes up on FaceBook.  8)

If you got treated that way on social media, I'm guessing you're not alone - and won't be alone in your commentary.

 

[Lightguns]

So, does this mean that, by extension, all AR platforms are now prohibited?  Cops making the laws, what could go wrong?

No, only ARs with the potential to fit a full automatic trigger group OR 80% lowers with the potential to be milled to fit a full automatic trigger are prohibited.  So all un-milled lowers and all M16 variants. The dumb thing about this is that if you can mill a 80% lower to functionality, you have the potential skills to mill an AR semi-auto to an M16 full auto.  So it doe not solve anything other than to be a little more nasty to the gun owning public and establish a reason for a budget for the RCMP Firearms Technical Team.

 

[Kat Stevens]

No, only ARs with the potential to fit a full automatic trigger group OR 80% lowers with the potential to be milled to fit a full automatic trigger are prohibited.  So all un-milled lowers and all M16 variants. The dumb thing about this is that if you can mill a 80% lower to functionality, you have the potential skills to mill an AR semi-auto to an M16 full auto.  So it doe not solve anything other than to be a little more nasty to the gun owning public and establish a reason for a budget for the RCMP Firearms Technical Team.

That's sort of where I was going. If you're savvy enough to mill an incomplete receiver, you're savvy enough to bodge an existing platform. I'm smelling a thin edge of the wedge scenario here, they were looking hard at my beloved SKS plunkers for a while,too, but that went sort of quiet.

 

[Lightguns]

That's sort of where I was going. If you're savvy enough to mill an incomplete receiver, you're savvy enough to bodge an existing platform. I'm smelling a thin edge of the wedge scenario here, they were looking hard at my beloved SKS plunkers for a while,too, but that went sort of quiet.

The whole "by extension made up laws" is a dangerous precedence that will lead to "future crime" laws.  Next they will extend to M305 because it can be milled to a M14 (if you are a machinist God), then the SKS because you can buy plans to make it full auto of the internet.