The Khadr Thread

[Jarnhamar]

Pile on oldsoldier for making a joke!

Me first!

 

[Niteshade]

Who cares about this punk kid.

6 years ago, just prior to his arrest, This kid would shoot/maim/kill any of us. His family are a large group of taliban supporters. He has been raised to think this is acceptable behavior, and as such followed in their footsteps. Even though he was 15 years old he was old enough to know killing is wrong.

Also, this "woe is me" garbage is a joke. He just doesn't like the hand he has been given as a result of his actions. I bet you he was expecting to be a martyr before imprisonment.

Sleep deprivation is mild in comparison to the trauma/pain he caused others.

Nites

 

[OldSolduer]

I wonder if some of you turned your sense of humour in. Can we not make jokes? Or is that not politically correct?

Tell you how I really feel.

Its too bad that a few more Taliban weren't killed at the time Khadr was taken......get my drift?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I wonder if some of you turned your sense of humour in. Can we not make jokes? Or is that not politically correct?

Tell you how I really feel.

Its too bad that a few more Taliban weren't killed at the time Khadr was taken......get my drift?

I caught it and that's all that matters OldSolduer

I don't think many people disagree that what this shit head did was wrong.(Well some of you had some wacked out theories but you admit you live in a rainbow and butterfly filled world)

His dip shit parents put him in a bad place and he has them to thank for where he is now.  Most of the arguments seem to be over legal mumbo jumbo. Whats a war criminal, whats a POW, whats a combatant.
Looks to me like his lawyers are trying to use his Canadian citizenship as a get out of jail free card. That's not on.  He attacked and killed our allies. He's bad. He should be punished, We all agree to that right?
Give him to the host nation to punish. Good luck son.
If his family has ties to terrorists deport them.

 

[North Star]

I though the best part was his complaint that his eyes and feet didn't work when clearly they did.

To me, he exhibits the same kinds of behaviours that a teen exhibits when hauled in front of an authority figure for a serious issue (ei - a young offender during an interview with a detective). I don't think it really shows any evidence of "torture". He is certainly messed up and has issues with his parents - the urinating on photographs shows that (as for his being used as a mop for urine and that as "torture", I think making him clean up his own mess is quite justified).

Ultimately, I wouldn't mind if the government asked for him to be repatriated. But as a citizen, I want iron-clad guarantees:

1) He be detained on arrival;
2) He not be permitted contact with his family;
3) He be forced to undergo psychiatric treatment (de-programming) for the years of Al-Q stuff he was subjected to; and
4) Upon release, he be subjected to monitoring for a reasonable period.

Problem is, if he's repatriated before he is found guilty of anything, we can't do any of that. I'm not even sure if fighting for an enemy of Canada (and even if there is such a definition in this age) is a criminal offense that a minor can be charged with and detained for. That's why he has to stay at Guantanamo and face a military tribunal: he needs to be found guilty of something before we can take him back under "positive control" and get him the treatment he needs to mitigate the risk to the public.

The solution to this issue in the future is to make it a criminal offense to fight for an enemy of an ally of Canada. I think Treason isn't used because of narrow legal interpretations that have been applied since the Second World War. Other legislation may need to be enacted to allow the state to detain child-soldiers on arrival back in Canada to determine their risk-level to the public. Given the state can detain alledged terrorists for ridiculously long periods of time without trial, it's not asking for much.

This issue has come up again and again. Scumbags from the Balkans shot at us, and then returned to the comfort of Mississauga and Edmonton without reprecussion. It's about time we did something about it. Khadr should be used as a rallying point for people concerned about how multiculturalism appears to be trumping loyalty to Canada, and the springboard for further thought on how to deal with these complex issues.

 

[Shec]

The solution to this issue in the future is to make it a criminal offense to fight for an enemy of an ally of Canada. I think Treason isn't used because of narrow legal interpretations that have been applied since the Second World War. Other legislation may need to be enacted to allow the state to detain child-soldiers on arrival back in Canada to determine their risk-level to the public. Given the state can detain alledged terrorists for ridiculously long periods of time without trial, it's not asking for much.

This issue has come up again and again. Scumbags from the Balkans shot at us, and then returned to the comfort of Mississauga and Edmonton without reprecussion. It's about time we did something about it. Khadr should be used as a rallying point for people concerned about how multiculturalism appears to be trumping loyalty to Canada, and the springboard for further thought on how to deal with these complex issues.

No  need to re-invent the wheel. Simply amend to toughen up and throw the Foreign Enlistment Act at 'em:

"Offence to enlist with a foreign state at war with a friendly state

3. Any person who, being a Canadian national, within or outside Canada, voluntarily accepts or agrees to accept any commission or engagement in the armed forces of any foreign state at war with any friendly foreign state or, whether a Canadian national or not, within Canada, induces any other person to accept or agree to accept any commission or engagement in any such armed forces is guilty of an offence.

R.S., c. F-29, s. 3."

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/F-28/index.html

 

[North Star]

Lol..my bad Shec...I used an old Criminal Code and didn't even think to look elsewhere!

Yes, an amendment allowing a psychiatric evaluation of involuntary child-soldiers would be well worth adding.

 

[Teeps74]

It boggles the mind to think that some would actually compare being a prisoner at Guantanamo for 6 years with a basic training course lasting what, all of 3-4 months? The prisoners at Gitmo have no idea if or when they will be released. They are subject to sleep deprivation and water boarding, and are kept in isolation for much of the time. No comparison.

Two points.

First, TQ 6B is not, I say again, not a basioc course. It's full name of the time was TQ (QL) SIX BRAVO INFANTRY PLATOON SECOND IN COMMAND COURSE.

Second. Anyone who has actually taken this course would probably make the same tongue in cheek comment. Sleep depravation, stress positions, "death marches". Hey, got the t-shirt, been there done that.

The course is now known as DP3B INF PL2IC CRSE.

Now, I am no fan of the Khadr's. I think they are a family of Canadians of convience, and traitors. They should be tried, jailed and then deported.

Having said that, we live in a society of laws, rights, and justice. This is what makes our society, the better society then the one they envision for us.

Following this, the kid is innocent until proven guilty. Even if he is guilty, he is a product of his up-bringing from his cursed family, and frankly, it should be his surviving parent (and any other surviving parental guardians/influencers) that should be doing the time for him, while he is deported. His father is rotting in hell, and I wish a pox on the surviving adults who still support the terrorist ideology of their father and al'Qaeda.

 

[North Star]

Oh yes, after having read bits of the Act I'd torque up the punishment for the offence to at least 15 years. As it currently stands 1 and 2 years (what the hell is "hard-labour" anyway?) seems really lame.

 

[larry Strong]

A little more on the interviews in today "Red Deer Advocate". Reproduced in accordance with the fair dealing provisions of the Copyright Act


http://www.albertalocalnews.com/reddeeradvocate/news/national/Omar_Khadr_shifty_sullen_self-pitying_on_CSIS_interrogation_tape.html

Omar Khadr shifty, sullen, self-pitying on CSIS interrogation tape
By The Canadian Press - July 15, 2008   


by The Canadian Press
EDMONTON — Sitting in his prison-orange shirt under the harsh lights of a Guantanamo Bay bunker, sullen and self-pitying Omar Khadr is by turns the shifty grinning truant teenager and the forlorn victim of a borderless war on terror.

“You didn’t just fall off the turnip truck,” his Canadian interrogator tells him as Khadr sits on a couch, drinking a Coke.

“Right now, Omar, it doesn’t get any worse.”

Tapes of the February 2003 interrogation of the Toronto-born Khadr by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service were released Tuesday following a court order to aid his defence on a charge he murdered U.S soldier Christopher Speer during a firefight in remote Afghanistan in 2002.

The tapes, grainy with poor sound quality, deliver a rare glimpse into the interrogation tactics by Canada’s spy agency.

The camera is hidden behind an air vent, leaving the frame slashed by horizontal slats. His interrogator’s face, for security reasons, is covered by a superimposed black ball, leaving the impression Khadr is being hectored by the petroglyphic stickman off a crosswalk sign.

“Finally,” Khadr smiles on the first day when he learns he is talking to fellow Canucks.

“I’ve been requesting the Canadian government the whole time.”

It had been a long, harsh road to Guantanamo and the CSIS interview.

Government documents, recently unsealed by the courts, reveal that for weeks prior to interrogations, his jailers at the U.S. base in Cuba would soften him up by moving him from cell to cell every three hours on a “frequent flyer” program to deprive him of sleep, making him punchy and more susceptible to questions.

Khadr, now 21, was 15 in July 2002 when he was captured in a firefight with U.S. forces rooting out terrorist strongholds in an Afghanistan village near the Pakistani border.

Sgt. Speer, a 28-year-old medic and father of two from Albuquerque, N.M., was hit by a grenade blast and grievously wounded. Less than two weeks later at a hospital in Germany, they pulled the plug. Khadr was shot twice through the torso in the exchange, shrapnel also grievously damaging his left eye.

He was soon airlifted to Guantanamo Bay and six months later was interviewed while, all around him, the drumbeats of America’s renewed war on terror were beating louder and louder.

Just days earlier, then-U.S. secretary of state Colin Powell made his case to the United Nations why it was time to go after Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction. Around the world, protesters demanded a halt to the pending invasion.

On the Al Jazeera network, al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden called for Muslims to continue the fight against America.

It was al-Qaida and bin Laden whom CSIS investigators wanted to know more about from Khadr. His father, Ahmed Said Khadr, was then a vocal supporter and financier for al-Qaida and later died fighting Pakistani forces in the fall of 2003.

No, says Khadr, eating potato chips, picking off crumbs from his shirt and licking his lips, Dad didn’t fund terrorist training camps.

“So everybody’s perceptions of what your father was doing is all kind of a big mistake, is it?” asks the interrogator.

Yes, he nods.

Did Omar go to training camps?

Yes.

For what.

“Self defence.”

Chip. Smack. Finger lick.

“I’m very happy to see you,” smiles Khadr as Day 1 wraps up.

The next day the bonhomie falls off a cliff.

On the tape, Khadr remains behind the desk but now is sullen, morose, unco-operative, crying.

“You don’t care about me!” he blurts out, his face down, covered by his hand.

“Nobody cares about me.”

He pulls his orange shirt over his head and points to his left shoulder.

“I can’t move my arms.

“I requested medical help a long time ago. They wouldn’t do anything about it.”

The interrogator is unfazed.

“I’m not a doctor but I think you’re getting good medical care.”

“I lost my eyes, I lost my feet, everything!” he shouts back.

“No, you still have your eyes and your feet are still at the end of your legs, y’know.”

They leave him alone to compose himself. Instead he sits in the room, head in his hands, fingers clawing at his hair and forehead, sobbing and crying for his mother in Arabic.

By Day 3 he has shifted to a couch, but the mood is improving.

The interrogator softly, forcefully, pushes forward on the father.

“You know what your father wants. Your father wants to continue this struggle. But he’s doing this at the expense of his entire family.”

“He’s not doing anything bad,” says Khadr.

“Well, we think he is.”

On the last day, Khadr is relaxed, back on the couch, eating a reheated burger, sipping a Coke, his arms stretched out on the top of the couch.

He fences with the interrogator, shrugging and smiling as they discuss what he may know about terrorist operations.

Yes, he says, he lied to the Americans and, yes, he has lied to the interrogator. But he had to.

“I said that because I’m scared.”

Of what.

“Of torture.”

He didn’t kill Speer, he says, but instead was sitting down when he was ambushed by three soldiers: “They just came over and shot me,”

“How did that American end up getting so dead then?”

“There was a fight on.”

From there it was over.

“This is our last kick at the cat,” says the interrogator.

Help us out or we’re outta here.

“You just want to hear whatever you want to hear,” says Khadr.

How is he doing in Guantanamo? Getting along? Making friends?

No, says Khadr, head hung again.

“There’s nobody to help me here.”

 

[Niteshade]

“There’s nobody to help me here.”

Good.

Nites

 

[GAP]

I see CBC Radio is really playing up the "Bring Khadr Home" theme....to the point I just turned it off....

 

[Brutus]

Hi folks, new member here with a few very basic yet important questions re: Khadr.

1- What is the basis for the criminal charge of murder? What I am driving at is this: is it the fact that he was not a member of the recognized military of Afghanistan at the time the crucial bit here?

2- My understanding is that he is being held in Gitmo under a general guise of being a terrorist, but specifically for the criminal charge of murder, and held as an unlawful combatant. Is that the general assumption?

 

[NL_engineer]

Well I finally got the chance to watch the videos.  They seem to be the most doctored crock of S*** that I have ever seen.

 

[MedTechStudent]

Well I finally got the chance to watch the videos.  They seem to be the most doctored crock of S*** that I have ever seen.

Agreed, even though the video was a real tear jerker : ... it does not change my opinion that he deserves what he got and what he will get in the future.  I mean what is this video trying to prove?  That young people cry during Federal interrogation?  Well, yea so would I :-\.  It's not like its a video of him being water boarded, so what's the motive behind releasing them?

 

[Neill McKay]

so what's the motive behind releasing them?

It was ordered by the Supreme Court, wasn't it?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Can't we deem him a traitor or something and take away his citizenship?

 

[aesop081]

Can't we deem him a traitor or something and take away his citizenship?

No. If we do that he will apply for refugee status and get back in here.

;D

 

[1feral1]

Can't we deem him a traitor or something and take away his citizenship?

Hi FD, greetings from the tropics. I hope your day is going well, and you are enjoying the northern summer.

I agree with you, but he is in US hands, and may never see life above the 49th again. Lets just hope that once justice comes, he is gaoled in the US for the rest of his life.

I don't buy the pity the 'child soldier crying for mommy' attitude for a heart beat of a flea. He's guilty. He was the only one alive in some rubble, where a grenade was thrown, killing a US soldier, unless dead people have reflexes that is. He knew what he was doing, it was no accident. It was a deliberate act towards Coalition Forces. The only downside to it all is he lived, and the press got hold of it, now we are all paying for it.  60 yrs ago, that pile of rubble would have been met by a flame thrower, with the result of crispy critters and good riddance.

I don't think one can strip citizenship from another, like stripping a resident of his visa if he commits a crime, and ends up being deported. They do that here all the time.

Our citizens should and MUST realise that once they leave our borders, they are at the mercy of the country they are in. Look what happens when one returns to their country of origin and is drafted into their army.

An example - we in Australia have had Australian citizens executed for drug crimes in Singapore and other countries, such as Viet Nam. Nothing could be done, and as much as I can have empathy for their parents, they new the risks, and so should this terrorist in custody now. Other Australian citizens currently s rot in foreign gaols in 3rd world countries for more drug crime, and other offences. Our government's hands are tied, but there is an exchange programme in the works with Indonesia.

Now, personally, I beleive that all new migrants, upon citizenship should be on an at least 10 yr good behaviour bond, and within that time, if one is charged with a significant crime, (less petty things and vehicle infractions), they and their families would be deported to whence they came. I think thats a fair go, and commands that newly appointed citizens be responsible and accountable for their actions.

This may curb some, but not all from straying, but if you are a radical extremist, one paper law is going to keep you from committing a terrorist act.


Happy days from a sunny and pleasnat winter's day,


OWDU

 

[retiredgrunt45]

I've said from the start that these "extremists" must be held to another standard, they don't recognize any other authority, legal or otherwise but in their misguided Jihad beliefs. This in itself places them in a category all to itself. So I believe that we should also have a special place for these international criminals and terrorists just like Guantanamo Bay, which separates them from domestic legal systems and treats them exactly the way they should be treated. "Like animals" "Chattel". Because when they willingly decided to and participated in the brutal killings, executions, be headings and the merciless killing of babies, children, women and of the mentally ill or handicapped. "Did I leave anyone out?" They then became lower than "animals" and this is exactly how they should be treated. "Scum, puke, vomit or feces. They should have no rights, no day in court, no bail or no quarter for a phone call. These animals need to be sent a message and that message is, if you so choose to become one of these cowardly lowly terrorists, you will then be captured and sent to a place just like  Guantanamo Bay, were you will enjoy all the trappings of a person who for all intensive purposes, does not exist anymore. And how can someone who does not exist, have any rights?

To sum up Khadr should stay exactly were he belongs for the rest of his natural life, Guantanamo Bay. Myself, I would find an island somewhere remote, place them all on it and then nuke it.