The Land Operations Temperate Boots (LOTB)

[ballz]

I like my Lowas, but $420 per boot is steep, even the cheaper versions are $300+.

When you factor in all the money spent on failed boot projects, I am guessing $400 for a pair of boots would look like a steal.

I bet if we asked Rocky to ship us 50,000 pairs of S2Vs in Coyote Brown, we'd have them in 3 months, ready to issue.

With a huge wholesale discount as well... Imagine buying boots "off the shelf" from these companies, the kind of discounts they could offer to get the contract.

I am a Meindl person myself, Lowa's biggest competitor in Europe as far as I know. To my (limited) knowledge, the Brits offer Lowas, Meindls, and I believe 4 more varieties of boots, all off the shelf models.

 

[PuckChaser]

A lot of the size issues can be fixed with ditching mondo point and buying commercial sizes. People easily know what size boot they are, and commercial boots are meant to fit as many people as possible to make money. We're re-inventing the wheel constantly.

 

[McG]

Do you know the new boots are not commercial sizes?  I thought they were COTS.

 

[PuckChaser]

Do you know the new boots are not commercial sizes?  I thought they were COTS.

I'd have to double check on CID, but originally the RFP required them be in mondo point, as apparently that covers 95% of the CAF.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Like Velcro patch on the newer uniform or sowen on?

I'd hope Velcro

Yes velcro, then again he has the new shirt....

 

[PuckChaser]

Yes velcro, then again he has the new shirt....

New shirt is meant to build teamwork, you're constantly getting arms stuck together if you get too close to someone.

 

[BinRat55]

I can assure everyone, the LOTB is not dead, nor is there any talk of it going away. I have already issued over a thousand pairs, plus there are thousands more enroute to me. Both styles. And yes - mondo-point sizing. 74 sizes of each style.

Not sure which FSM told pers that the LOTB was done, but it was an error on their part.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I can assure everyone, the LOTB is not dead, nor is there any talk of it going away. I have already issued over a thousand pairs, plus there are thousands more enroute to me. Both styles. And yes - mondo-point sizing. 74 sizes of each style.

Not sure which FSM told pers that the LOTB was done, but it was an error on their part.

You've just raised my spirits a bit!  PM inbound

 

[daftandbarmy]

Problem is none of those companies will sell Boulet, Kodiak, etc... Their patents 

I would personally go with Lowa's, best army boot on the market IMO.  It's what the Brits and Germans use  8)

I was involved in some of the UK trials to replace their boots.... over 30 years ago. It was a full on exercise in futility, and we endured with the DMS boot (and, yes, puttees) until the mid-80s brought us a thoroughly UNSAT 'combat high boot'.

It took them another 10 + years after I left to come to their senses and look 'on the shelf' for the right answer, which was the recommendation we had made decades before. I have no idea how that happened, but we may be able to learn from their experience in some way.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I was involved in some of the UK trials to replace their boots.... over 30 years ago. It was a full on exercise in futility, and we endured with the DMS boot (and, yes, puttees) until the mid-80s brought us a thoroughly UNSAT 'combat high boot'.

It took them another 10 + years after I left to come to their senses and look 'on the shelf' for the right answer, which was the recommendation we had made decades before. I have no idea how that happened, but we may be able to learn from their experience in some way.

I believe it happened because of Iraq and Afghanistan after the UK government took massive flak for how poorly equipped the troops were.  The individual soldier equipment of the British Army is very good now.  I picked up some of their kit when I did Cambrian Patrol in 2012, it's pretty high quality stuff.  The Brits made a lot of fun of our tacticL vests, they wondered why we wore fishing vests to battle  ;D

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The Brits made a lot of fun of our tacticL vests, they wondered why we wore fishing vests to battle  ;D

Balderdash!  It's a highly effective, proven combat vest!!    You can never run out of grenades, for instance, because you are never able to get them out of the pockets designed for them!! 

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

I believe it happened because of Iraq and Afghanistan after the UK government took massive flak for how poorly equipped the troops were.  The individual soldier equipment of the British Army is very good now.  I picked up some of their kit when I did Cambrian Patrol in 2012, it's pretty high quality stuff.  The Brits made a lot of fun of our tacticL vests, they wondered why we wore fishing vests to battle  ;D

We're in a world if hurt when the Brits are making odlf our kit. (The old saying- you can buy good or you can buy british)

 

[MattGotts]

When I went to Clothing stores to get proper fitting boots after a year of clownshoes, they gave me Boulet desert boots. Other guys in my unit have the brown hot weather boots, the leather brown boots, or mark 3's.
Does anyone else this happening in their armoury? 

 

[Nfld Sapper]

When I went to Clothing stores to get proper fitting boots after a year of clownshoes, they gave me Boulet desert boots. Other guys in my unit have the brown hot weather boots, the leather brown boots, or mark 3's.
Does anyone else this happening in their armoury?

Canadian Army confirms that is moving to an attrition model for the issuing of new boots (LOTB).  This means that rather than automatically issuing two new pairs of LOTB to each soldier, we will issue replacement boots only (i.e. as a pair of existing boots wears out, new boots (LOTB) will be issued).  We will also use up all existing stocks of boots, and phase in the introduction of new LOTB

 

[BinRat55]

Canadian Army confirms that is moving to an attrition model for the issuing of new boots (LOTB).  This means that rather than automatically issuing two new pairs of LOTB to each soldier, we will issue replacement boots only (i.e. as a pair of existing boots wears out, new boots (LOTB) will be issued).  We will also use up all existing stocks of boots, and phase in the introduction of new LOTB

Yea - this happened mid-phase 2 after we had sized / ordered / issued to at least 25% of the base. Now we have half a dozen units complaining that their neighbor has the new boots but not them. Their buddy down the road has the new boots, but not them. Their grandmother has the new boots but not them.

Try to explain the concept of attrition to a soldier who really doesn't care - they just want the new boot! For those of you reading this and haven't received the new LOTB, please understand - it's not those behind the counter saying no - we are only following direction.

And attrition is not "Well, I have had these boots for the past 3 years but now all of a sudden the only thing that fits are the new boots..."

This is blowing up in the Supply Tech's faces. We have had 6 people actually removed from Clothing last week because the Front Counter staff said they had to check depot and order the MKIV vice the LOTB... very colorful and unprofessional language!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Yea - this happened mid-phase 2 after we had sized / ordered / issued to at least 25% of the base. Now we have half a dozen units complaining that their neighbor has the new boots but not them. Their buddy down the road has the new boots, but not them. Their grandmother has the new boots but not them.

Try to explain the concept of attrition to a soldier who really doesn't care - they just want the new boot! For those of you reading this and haven't received the new LOTB, please understand - it's not those behind the counter saying no - we are only following direction.

And attrition is not "Well, I have had these boots for the past 3 years but now all of a sudden the only thing that fits are the new boots..."

This is blowing up in the Supply Tech's faces. We have had 6 people actually removed from Clothing last week because the Front Counter staff said they had to check depot and order the MKIV vice the LOTB... very colorful and unprofessional language!

Or, in many cases, they just need some sort of new boot because their's are fucked. I know many, many people that don't care about what colour or style they get, they just need their boots replaced because their current ones are totally worn out. Just throwing any sort of boot at them doesn't work either. Cold wet weather boots worn in the summer are just as damaging to the feet as regular boots worn in the cold and wet of winter.

Whatever the case, the whole boot file has been completely mismanaged and to blame troops because someone figures "that they just want the newest and shiniest" is degrading and immoral. They just want something on their feet that works and shouldn't be concerned with what the procurement problems are. That area is not anywhere near their balliwick. It belongs to the system only. The same system that is supposed to properly equip and take care of our troops so they can concentrate on doing their jobs properly without having to worry about their main mode of transportation. Nor should they be used for blame by an archaic, dysfunctional system that can't\ won't do their own job properly.

 

[Flavus101]

Or, in many cases, they just need some sort of new boot because their's are fucked. I know many, many people that don't care about what colour or style they get, they just need their boots replaced because their current ones are totally worn out. Just throwing any sort of boot at them doesn't work either. Cold wet weather boots worn in the summer are just as damaging to the feet as regular boots worn in the cold and wet of winter.

Whatever the case, the whole boot file has been completely mismanaged and to blame troops because someone figures "that they just want the newest and shiniest" is degrading and immoral. They just want something on their feet that works and shouldn't be concerned with what the procurement problems are. That area is not anywhere near their balliwick. It belongs to the system only. The same system that is supposed to properly equip and take care of our troops so they can concentrate on doing their jobs properly without having to worry about their main mode of transportation. Nor should they be used for blame by an archaic, dysfunctional system that can't\ won't do their own job properly.

:goodpost:

I wish more people got on-board with this train of thought.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

:goodpost:

I wish more people got on-board with this train of thought.

You need to have more disgruntled old guys for that thought to catch any momentum. We sneak them off to become Commissionaires before they get to that point.

 

[medicineman]

Balderdash!  It's a highly effective, proven combat vest!!    You can never run out of grenades, for instance, because you are never able to get them out of the pockets designed for them!!

Assuming of course they can find grenades to issue...

MM

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Assuming of course they can find grenades to issue...

MM

None this year, sorry.

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