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The military has a hate group problem. But it doesn't know how bad it's gotten.

Colin Parkinson

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Certain caste Indian women were burnt at their husband pyre for centuries as well, not to mention the joy of a Caste system, great if your on the top, not such on the bottom. Every society has racists, sexist and ethnic issues in it's past.
 

sher_singh

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Your use of racist colonial stereotypes & atrocity propaganda is not something I can dispute politely.

In the future, I'd ask that you don't speak of racism as something that exists in the past.
Our notion of the first or developed world, is a group of mostly white countries.

I'd like you to meditate on how that happens, before I even address how Sati was increased by the British and how "Caste" is a Portuguese word.
 

sher_singh

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And I'd ask that you don't tell folks on here how to think or type.
Thank you.
Bruce
I only asked as a guest member, while as a Staff 'asking' me, implies coercion.

"Although mainstream definitions of racism are some variation of individual “race prejudice”, Whiteness scholars define racism as encompassing economic & socio-political structures that systematize an unequal distribution of privileges, and power between white and people of color."

"Racism is not fluid; it does not flow back and forth. The direction of power between whites and people of color is historic, normalized, and deeply embedded in the fabric of society"


“For many whites, the naming of white racial power is the issue rather than its existence.” - Robin DiAngelo
“The only remedy to racist discrimination is antiracist discrimination.
The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination." - Dr. Ibram X. Kendi


I'm just trying to move the conversation along constructively, I don't asking someone to be mindful is bad as long as we have the same goals.
https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/k8l95h/_/gezmubk
Common diversions to derail a constructive conversation on racism are linked above.
 

Kilted

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I'd like you to meditate on how that happens, before I even address how Sati was increased by the British and how "Caste" is a Portuguese word.
Part's of that are not entirely true. While the British East India Company had a policy of not getting involved in religious matters, there still were British officers who banned the practice. The British would outright ban the practice, first in Calcutta and then in the rest of India. It is true that Caste is a Portuguese word, but it's origins are thousands of years old.

Also, the concept of the First, Second, and Third comes from the Cold War, 1st being NATO, 2nd Being the Warsaw Pact, and 3rd being everyone else.
 

sher_singh

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Part's of that are not entirely true. While the British East India Company had a policy of not getting involved in religious matters, there still were British officers who banned the practice. The British would outright ban the practice, first in Calcutta and then in the rest of India. It is true that Caste is a Portuguese word, but it's origins are thousands of years old.

Also, the concept of the First, Second, and Third comes from the Cold War, 1st being NATO, 2nd Being the Warsaw Pact, and 3rd being everyone else.
Pilfering funds meant for the upkeep of widows led to a direct increase in the practice, which was otherwise rare & religiously discouraged.
Indiafacts has a few good articles among other places.

Caste refers to a system of blood purity while Vedic society has Varna and Jati.
Neither of the three are related.

India has not had self-rule for most of the last millennia, we know the West's history.
Deflecting from one to the other is really low & despicable.
Commonly, third worlder refers to a brown person.

Western culture isn't some supreme standard we all aspire to.
WEIRD (Western European Industrialized Rich Democratic) people are not the objective, universal standard for humanity.
Such beliefs are one of the key enablers of racism.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Your use of racist colonial stereotypes & atrocity propaganda is not something I can dispute politely.

In the future, I'd ask that you don't speak of racism as something that exists in the past.
Our notion of the first or developed world, is a group of mostly white countries.

I'd like you to meditate on how that happens, before I even address how Sati was increased by the British and how "Caste" is a Portuguese word.
Actually you started bringing up the past, so I elaborated on it. It seems the subject that your ancestors being mere mortals and subject to all the good and bad that humans get up to is a touchy one for you. I bet I could find a great deal of examples of the various groups in the region subjecting each other and committing atrocities. The point being that Caucasians are not alone in our fallibility.
I would also suspect that your recent history is imperfect, it was very much in the interests of Indian Nationalists to paint the British in the worst possible light for their own ends. India is an amazing country with great future ahead of it, but it has a past like all other regions. Racism exists in India like any other country.
 

Kilted

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Pilfering funds meant for the upkeep of widows led to a direct increase in the practice, which was otherwise rare & religiously discouraged.
Indiafacts has a few good articles among other places.

Caste refers to a system of blood purity while Vedic society has Varna and Jati.
Neither of the three are related.

India has not had self-rule for most of the last millennia, we know the West's history.
Deflecting from one to the other is really low & despicable.
Commonly, third worlder refers to a brown person.

Western culture isn't some supreme standard we all aspire to.
WEIRD (Western European Industrialized Rich Democratic) people are not the objective, universal standard for humanity.
Such beliefs are one of the key enablers of racism.
I have no idea what half of that has to do with what I said. I was trying to have a civil conversation, but based on your posts I believe that you are searching for flights here and I am not going to get drawn into it. I will have to respectfully disagree with you on some of your points.
 

sher_singh

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"White fragility functions as a form of bullying; I am going to make it so miserable for you to confront me—no matter how diplomatically you try to do so—that you will simply back off, give up, and never raise the issue again. White fragility keeps people of color in line and “in their place.”

Social power is not fixed; it is constantly challenged and needs to be maintained. We might think of the triggers of white fragility as challenges to white power and control, and of white fragility as the means to end the challenge and maintain that power and control."

"Whiteness is a location of structural advantage, of race privilege. A ‘standpoint,’ from which White people look at themselves, others & society." "Whiteness is conceptualized as processes and practices rather than a discrete entity (i.e. skin color alone)"

I am not looking for a fight, a nationalist or concerned about anything personally.
I am very happy that many Western governments are beginning to take racism seriously, despite the efforts of those socialized to resist change.

“Stopping racist patterns must be more important than convincing others we don’t have them”

I know racism will be defeated, I am sure of it.
 

Kat Stevens

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"White fragility functions as a form of bullying; I am going to make it so miserable for you to confront me—no matter how diplomatically you try to do so—that you will simply back off, give up, and never raise the issue again. White fragility keeps people of color in line and “in their place.”

Social power is not fixed; it is constantly challenged and needs to be maintained. We might think of the triggers of white fragility as challenges to white power and control, and of white fragility as the means to end the challenge and maintain that power and control."

"Whiteness is a location of structural advantage, of race privilege. A ‘standpoint,’ from which White people look at themselves, others & society." "Whiteness is conceptualized as processes and practices rather than a discrete entity (i.e. skin color alone)"

I am not looking for a fight, a nationalist or concerned about anything personally.
I am very happy that many Western governments are beginning to take racism seriously, despite the efforts of those socialized to resist change.

“Stopping racist patterns must be more important than convincing others we don’t have them”

I know racism will be defeated, I am sure of it.
That's racist.
 

Jarnhamar

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The author who coined the term White fragility believes Liberals and progressives like herself are the worst offenders.
 

Remius

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I like to think that I know my privilege. I am well aware racism exists either actively or passively but this conversation was giving me a headache.
 

daftandbarmy

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Your use of racist colonial stereotypes & atrocity propaganda is not something I can dispute politely.

In the future, I'd ask that you don't speak of racism as something that exists in the past.
Our notion of the first or developed world, is a group of mostly white countries.

I'd like you to meditate on how that happens, before I even address how Sati was increased by the British and how "Caste" is a Portuguese word.

I like to think that I know my privilege. I am well aware racism exists either actively or passively but this conversation was giving me a headache.


Can we get back to complaining about someone else's Army again? I find that's my safe space these days :)
 
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