The Post-pandemic Canadian Armed Forces

[Halifax Tar]

I recall a course a student insisted they couldn't sleep in the field because they were allergic to the sleeping bags or something like that.

Student was sent to MIR, got chit saying "no sleeping in the field", came back with smile on their face.  Later that afternoon, after they'd seen the Coy 2 I/C and found out they were being RTUd...not so big of a smile on their face.

I have encountered this before in Supply.  We simply bought civilian sleeping bags that were not made with the same material.  We do the same for people who are too tall for our sleeping bags.  Annecdotal, I have also processed a dude who's head too big for our Army helmets.  Yup we special sized a helment for him lol.  Its not just boots. 

 

[dangerboy]

I have encountered this before in Supply.  We simply bought civilian sleeping bags that were not made with the same material.  We do the same for people who are too tall for our sleeping bags.  Annecdotal, I have also processed a dude who's head too big for our Army helmets.  Yup we special sized a helment for him lol.  Its not just boots.

DSSPM handles this all the time. It is fairly common as Halifax Tar said for all clothing and equipment, and written into most statement of works that the provision for special sizes must occur.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Would having a P-Cat saying no field not also be a breach of UoS?  I would assume yes but who knows these days. 

I don't think anyone on here can make that determination but, you can always familiarize yourself with the policy.

DAOD 5023-1, Minimum Operational Standards Related to Universality of Service

 

[stellarpanther]

Thanks aii. I think he's just going to show up with his machine and chit and go from there.  He had the P-Cat before he got promoted so thinking about this more, it wouldn't have made sense for him to get promoted if he wasn't going to be able to complete PLQ because of a permanent MEL.

 

[PuckChaser]

Thanks aii. I think he's just going to show up with his machine and chit and go from there.  He had the P-Cat before he got promoted so thinking about this more, it wouldn't have made sense for him to get promoted if he wasn't going to be able to complete PLQ because of a permanent MEL.

That's probably the best route, be forthcoming with the staff.


For the second part, CANFORGEN 012/17 delinked medical category from promotion criteria. That allows people on TCAT/PCAT who are selected to be promoted not to be held back by those conditions. It allows removes the time criteria from reverting from Acting/Lacking rank if member cannot complete the required career course/training due to that TCAT/PCAT. That means your friend will remain a A/L MCpl even if he cannot complete the field portion of PLQ-A due to his PCAT. If he can, then he won't be restricted from being further promoted as well.

 

[dangerboy]

Thanks aii. I think he's just going to show up with his machine and chit and go from there.  He had the P-Cat before he got promoted so thinking about this more, it wouldn't have made sense for him to get promoted if he wasn't going to be able to complete PLQ because of a permanent MEL.

If I was his chain of command I would contact the training centre that is running the course and talk to them bringing up the concerns of the MELs and the machine and see if it is possible to do the course before sending him on it.

 

[daftandbarmy]

If I was his chain of command I would contact the training centre that is running the course and talk to them bringing up the concerns of the MELs and the machine and see if it is possible to do the course before sending him on it.

Good idea. One phone call can save a world of hurt....

 

[MarkOttawa]

Start of a post--please don't get enraged off the top, just some thoughts of mine further to those of the author quoted on how most effectively to deal with the major defence funding cuts almost certainly coming, in order to have CAF that can still contribute usefully at home and continue to contribute to some important international security activities. My wild-ass ideas are hardly anything like definitive conclusions, just ideas to stimulate further thought and discussion:

Covid-19 Facing the Canadian Government and Military with Major Decisions on Force Structures, Employment and Equipment–how Radical a Re-Shape?

Further to this post,

COVID-19 may well be the End of the Canadian Armed Forces as we have Known them…and of our Effective Sovereignty

here’s the latter part of a most thoughtful article at the Canadian magazine FrontLine Defence; with the certain funding crunch coming it seems clear that without an unprecedented for decades revamp of the Canadian Armed Forces they will become an increasingly ineffective, irrelevant military:

Getting ahead of COVID defence curve
...

https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2020/06/11/covid-19-facing-the-canadian-government-and-military-with-major-decisions-on-force-structures-employment-and-equipment-how-radical-a-re-shape/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Jarnhamar]

Thanks aii. I think he's just going to show up with his machine and chit and go from there.  He had the P-Cat before he got promoted so thinking about this more, it wouldn't have made sense for him to get promoted if he wasn't going to be able to complete PLQ because of a permanent MEL.

Is he HRA?

 

[stellarpanther]

Do 28 minutes of drill then go sit on a chair for 10 minutes to rest then back to drill.
Easy fix, that way someone doesn't feel left out or like they're not a part of the team.

Is this friend with the sleeping machine the same friend with the covid19 chit?

No

 

[stellarpanther]

Is he HRA?

No and he's Air Force so he doesn't do Mod 4 and will be going to Borden.  His CoC got a hold of the school and was told they get a lot of mbr's with machines and they work around it, whatever that means.

 

[stellarpanther]

Do 28 minutes of drill then go sit on a chair for 10 minutes to rest then back to drill.
Easy fix, that way someone doesn't feel left out or like they're not a part of the team.

Is this friend with the sleeping machine the same friend with the covid19 chit?

No it's not the same person.  To meet UoS, you need to be able to do drill/parade for up to 30 minutes in a 24 hour period.  Maybe someone on here has the sheet that medical uses to determine whether a person meet UoS?  I'm sure some would be surprised what is on it.  I laughed when I first looked at it.  I recall someone pointing out one time when we were looking at it that you do have to be able to safely handle a weapon.  You don't need to be able to complete a 13km ruck march like some people think.  That's not even required on BMQ anymore.

 

[Jarnhamar]

off topic

 

[dangerboy]

No it's not the same person.  To meet UoS, you need to be able to do drill/parade for up to 30 minutes in a 24 hour period.  Maybe someone on here has the sheet that medical uses to determine whether a person meet UoS?  I'm sure some would be surprised what is on it.  I laughed when I first looked at it.  I recall someone pointing out one time when we were looking at it that you do have to be able to safely handle a weapon.  You don't need to be able to complete a 13km ruck march like some people think.  That's not even required on BMQ anymore.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/medical-standards-military-occupations/generic-task-statement-all-caf-members.html

 

[stellarpanther]

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/medical-standards-military-occupations/generic-task-statement-all-caf-members.html

Thanks.  Surprisingly even though it say "inability to perform medical procedures (injections, use of CPAP, etc.)", not sure exactly what that means, I can tell you for a fact that they do not release people for CPAP.  Other than drill/parade or PT P-Cats, CPAP is probably the most common one out there.  It doesn't say it on there but I know they look at trade as well.

 

[stellarpanther]

Looking at this more, they actually have a newer version that they use, I read it briefly once.  It uses trade and rank.

 

[MJP]

Looking at this more, they actually have a newer version that they use, I read it briefly once.  It uses trade and rank.

You are confusing MOSID standards with the generic task standards.  They are different things, all CAF mbrs must meet the latter, different MOSIDS and ranks have stricter (for lack of a better term) medical/task standards

 

[dangerboy]

You are confusing MOSID standards with the generic task standards.  They are different things, all CAF mbrs must meet the latter, different MOSIDS and ranks have stricter (for lack of a better term) medical/task standards

Look at appendix 1 of Annex D of the document and it will link you to the various MOSID standards

 

[stellarpanther]

Look at appendix 1 of Annex D of the document and it will link you to the various MOSID standards

Thanks, that was what I was referring to.  Looking at some of the standards for various trades, I was somewhat surprised by some of the things.  Some of the things that are listed for various trades I thought were a requirement for everyone.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Thanks.  Surprisingly even though it say "inability to perform medical procedures (injections, use of CPAP, etc.)", not sure exactly what that means, I can tell you for a fact that they do not release people for CPAP.  Other than drill/parade or PT P-Cats, CPAP is probably the most common one out there.  It doesn't say it on there but I know they look at trade as well.

That is probably from the "note" on DAOD 5023-1, Minimum Operational Standards Related to Universality of Service, which refers to Canadian Armed Forces Medical Standards (CFP 154), Annex D, Appendix 1;  these Task Statements are the MOS ID-specific duties according to rank.

* I have no idea why there is no Appendix for Commissioned members.