The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Good2Golf]

I am not saying whether he is right or not, just that some things he says may be overstated and others understated, given his background.

Overstated/understated according to what datum?

 

[SupersonicMax]

Overstated/understated according to what datum?

Datum being facts and their relevance/importance to Canada’s situation.

 

[Good2Golf]

Datum being facts and their relevance/importance to Canada’s situation.

Facts available to the public? Using what comparison method to determine relevance/importance to “Canada’s situation?”

And by “Canada’s situation,” what does that mean? To Govt? To DND? To Canadian industry? To the Canadian people?

 

[SupersonicMax]

Facts available to the public? Using what comparison method to determine relevance/importance to “Canada’s situation?”

And by “Canada’s situation,” what does that mean? To Govt? To DND? To Canadian industry? To the Canadian people?

Both.

By Canada’s situation I mean factors influencing or important to Canada’s defence. I have to admit that it is difficult to contextualize when we hardly have a clear foreign policy or concrete strategic guidance. There is a lot of room to maneuver for people to define what we need.

My point is that given Mr Flynn’s background, it is important to understand that his opinion may be biaised towards the F-35 given his interests.

 

[Good2Golf]

I don’t think anyone is inferring from his pitch that there isn’t an element of bias.

But so too, it is important for the RCAF and the FF to appreciate its own bias(es), relative to what is desired from an RCAF perspective, Departmental, Governmental, etc.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I don’t think anyone is inferring from his pitch that there isn’t an element of bias.

But so too, it is important for the RCAF and the FF to appreciate its own bias(es), relative to what is desired from an RCAF perspective, Departmental, Governmental, etc.

Agreed. I have an opinion on what I believe we should get, amongst the three contenders but generally, I am much less emotionally attached to any aircraft compared to others.

 

[Good2Golf]

I would hope that all involved in FFCP are most emotionally (in the professional sense) attached to the capabilities and the requirements that beget those requirements, as best as can be derived from extant government policy and statements (including life cycle and sustainability considerations).

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express several times, so that and a few hours in some 900s during OJT give me just enough insight to be dangerous, but generically I would say that two of the three systems (see what I did there?) would be fairly decent choices, with the difference that I see being not insignificant (once all the money is allocated) as which nexus of integration will we be closer too? Uncle Sam and a handful of close bilateral nations, or a wider group alliance-focus…either of which could be quarterbacked as a bad move after the decision is made.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

He's not quite as famous as his ex wife.

Did not know who that was until I looked it up!

 

[daftandbarmy]

He's not quite as infamous as his ex wife.

There, FTFY

 

[LiveFightMove]

What would be good I think is if they had a member of the RCAF fly in both the F/A-18E and F-35A to bring some more perspective and non-biased opinion. Someone like Captain Chris Swartz.

 

[daftandbarmy]

What would be good I think is if they had a member of the RCAF fly in both the F/A-18E and F-35A to bring some more perspective and non-biased opinion. Someone like Captain Chris Swartz.

Great idea...

Would this take place in one of the circus rings next to, you know, a duel between the Sherman and the M-60?

I think there was about the same time gap between the two being produced, but an even bigger pedant will probably be along in a minute to sort me out

 

[Good2Golf]

What would be good I think is if they had a member of the RCAF fly in both the F/A-18E and F-35A to bring some more perspective and non-biased opinion. Someone like Captain Chris Swartz.

So an RCAF fighter pilot who has flown their entire career operationally in a CF-18 would be “non-biased?”

Best to make sure they at least flew another type operationally for some objective perspective.

 

[Spencer100]

Did not know who that was until I looked it up!

Wow...just looked up too....maybe they could have seen the red flags before?

 

[Good2Golf]

Red flags? You mean to these types?

 

[KevinB]

LM just got a several B $ package for F-22 work
Rumor mill around DC is awash with what that can all mean...

Having been at CD's for both the F-35 and F-22, if I was the USAF until GENX Fighter is primetime, I would have kicked the 22 line back open for 5I folks and another USAF Squadron or two.

I'm still chuckling that people still think the Hornet and Super Hornet are viable in this day and age as a MultiRole Fighter - should probably be calling it the EA-18 as they are really only viable for Wild Weasel and uncontested ground strike

 

[dapaterson]

F35 was oversold in the beginning (and still has a ways to go to deliver promised capabilities). Add to that the technological problems caused by inclusion the USMC requirement in the airframe, and...

 

[SupersonicMax]

I'm still chuckling that people still think the Hornet and Super Hornet are viable in this day and age as a MultiRole Fighter - should probably be calling it the EA-18 as they are really only viable for Wild Weasel and uncontested ground strike

It really depends what “roles” you want to take on and the threats you are willing to face.

 

[LiveFightMove]

So an RCAF fighter pilot who has flown their entire career operationally in a CF-18 would be “non-biased?”

Best to make sure they at least flew another type operationally for some objective perspective.

Right now I believe he's on the Future Fighter team, and he has experience in the CF-18 Hornet and the F/A-18E Super Hornet.

Getting him some exposure (not sure how much would be necessary or what experience per se) on the F-35A and he would be able to bring more insight and knowledge from someone who has flown both airframes. And say he preferred the F-35 with his initial bias toward the Hornet family of jets, it would give his choice of the F-35 more weight.

 

[KevinB]

It really depends what “roles” you want to take on and the threats you are willing to face.

Silly me I thought that a Nations Air FORCE was supposed to do Air Force things.

I get part of your point - which is why I suggested the EA-18 designation - but if you only have 1 Fighter in your bag of tricks - it needs to be multi role capable against Peer/Near Peer threats - which means you don't always get a say in what threats you actually face - as sometimes the threat comes to you.

It is all well and good to say in a Coalition Environment that you will take certain roles - but over your Nations skies - you need be able to tango with the currently fielded aircraft of hostile actors. Based on that, I do not believe the Hornet family is a good or viable choice in that.

Now if you want to fold the fighter side of the RCAF - and ask us to cover the air - that is fine too -- but then invest in other enablers.
Don't try to snow the snow man that upgrading Hornets at this day and age is a good use of tax payer monies.

Any attempt like that just shows the Fighter mafia cares more about their empire than the CF as a whole, or Canada as a nation.

 

[Good2Golf]

Right now I believe he's on the Future Fighter team, and he has experience in the CF-18 Hornet and the F/A-18E Super Hornet.

Getting him some exposure (not sure how much would be necessary or what experience per se) on the F-35A and he would be able to bring more insight and knowledge from someone who has flown both airframes. And say he preferred the F-35 with his initial bias toward the Hornet family of jets, it would give his choice of the F-35 more weight.

The concept of having the procurement system so dependent on a single person’s opinion, as experienced to the role as they may be, is very far removed from best practices. Imagine they believe the F/A-18E to be best and the government chose that based on their personal opinion. That doesn’t come anywhere close to seeming a good idea. Imagine if the Army selected one soldier to have their opinion used to decide replacement boots. All jokes aside about how that might actually result in a good boot for once, the risk of personal opinion overriding best capability is not acceptable to evaluation of capabilities against appropriately developed criteria.