The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[YZT580]

I remember reading an article that I can no longer find, this was roughly 18-25yrs ago, that talked about some Jesuit lead/inspired youth group that PET was involved with that was anti-Jewish in Quebec during the war when he was in uni.
I went looking for it a few years back and wasn’t able to find it.

the story I heard was he used to ride around downtown Montreal on his motorcycle wearing a nazi helmet. How true that was I don't know but it fit with his attitude towards the military

 

[GR66]

the story I heard was he used to ride around downtown Montreal on his motorcycle wearing a nazi helmet. How true that was I don't know but it fit with his attitude towards the military

From this article on Canadian Urban Legends it seems there are as many versions of this story as there are tellers...

Did future prime minister Pierre Trudeau protest World War II by riding around Montreal on his motorcycle while wearing a Nazi helmet?

It’s unclear.

According to biographers Max Nemni and Monique Nemni, authors of Young Trudeau: 1919-1944: Son of Quebec, Father of Canada, the motorcycle/helmet story “has as many variants as there are storytellers, each embroidering freely on the known facts.” Credible sources do seem to agree, however, that young Pierre and his friend Roger Rolland (1921-2011) played a prank in 1942 that involved dressing up in European military uniforms and riding around on their motorbikes.

The Nemnis quote Rolland’s memory of the prank, in which he recounts that it was he, not Trudeau who wore the German army helmet (from the First World War, incidentally). Rolland similarly claims, in the Nemnis’ words, that the point of the prank was simply to surprise some friends with “outlandish disguises,” — “not to convey some political message.” The Nemnis themselves seem skeptical, and question “how two educated young men in their early twenties, in the midst of a world war, could find such a prank appropriate.”

 

[IKnowNothing]

I joined 1990. Served until my release 2018. Pardon? I know Canada didn't take its defence seriously, I watched it first hand. Its called first hand experience, many here watched it as well. Not sure how you as a civilian sees it, I am telling you how myself and many of my peers watched it unfold.

Firstly, thank-you for service.

Secondly, no where in this thread have I stated or otherwise implied that our Post cold war(the entire period of your service) defense spend was high enough. What I have pointed out was the objective reality that for the 40 year duration of the cold war we maintained a % of GDP defense spend materially higher than that of the 30 years after. It doesn't require serving in the CAF to read this chart. 40 years with an average higher than 2%, low point 1.7%, quick wind down as the "Peace Dividend" is implemented, then 30 years averaging ~1.2%.

Can you agree that 2% is greater than 1.2%, and that the Peace dividend is not a figment of our collective imaginations? That Canada's defense spending did in fact come down at the end of the cold war?

Good? Good.

The unfortunate reality is that realistically Canada's spend is always going to characterized as "the bare minimum less however much we can get away with" BUT - simple historical observation shows that "the bare minimum" changes with the times. It was not always at the levels of the 90's/00's/10's. Again- 40 years with an average higher than 2% (14 of those years with PET), followed by 30+ average 1.2%.

I agree- if this is a geopolitical blip and the Western world can return to a pre-2024 "normal" in short order, yeah our spending is going to fall toute suite. But I don't think it's a blip. I think it's a paradigm shift and we're in for a decade+ of 2.5%+ on the low end.

 

[Lumber]

Orange man bad is the only driving new found interest in defence spending.

It’s way more than that, Rick.

A nuclear-armed state invaded its neighbour to erase it as a country.

China has ignored international rulings, militarized the South China Sea, and is openly preparing for a forced reunification of Taiwan.

The United States, our closest ally, has repeatedly questioned NATO, flirted with territorial claims, and signaled that long-standing security guarantees are conditional.

International institutions have proven unable to stop major wars when great powers are involved.

And at home, Canadians are living through sustained inflation, a housing crisis, and widening inequality that all make instability feel personal, not theoretical.

Taken together, this isn’t “Orange man bad.” It’s a growing sense, even among people who’ve never heard the term, that the post-Cold War world Canadians grew up in no longer exists, and that safety and prosperity can’t be assumed anymore.

 

[Kirkhill]

It’s way more than that, Rick.

A nuclear-armed state invaded its neighbour to erase it as a country.

China has ignored international rulings, militarized the South China Sea, and is openly preparing for a forced reunification of Taiwan.

The United States, our closest ally, has repeatedly questioned NATO, flirted with territorial claims, and signaled that long-standing security guarantees are conditional.

International institutions have proven unable to stop major wars when great powers are involved.

And at home, Canadians are living through sustained inflation, a housing crisis, and widening inequality that all make instability feel personal, not theoretical.

Taken together, this isn’t “Orange man bad.” It’s a growing sense, even among people who’ve never heard the term, that the post-Cold War world Canadians grew up in no longer exists, and that safety and prosperity can’t be assumed anymore.

And by and large the Cold War Canadians are no more either. Generations have passed.

 

[FJAG]

And by and large the Cold War Canadians are no more either. Generations have passed.

Hey. I'm in the room.

 

[OldSolduer]

Hey. I'm in the room.

As am I. Oh btw I found a publication about Soviet Ground Forces in my extra kit room .

 

[Kirkhill]

I came to Canada in 1966.

In the Toronto phone book there were 12 pages of Macs and 40 pages of Mcs.
It kind of felt like home.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I came to Canada in 1966.

In the Toronto phone book there were 12 pages of Macs and 40 pages of Mcs.
It kind of felt like home.

Ah, but how many Wallace’s were there?

 

[Kirkhill]

Ah, but how many Wallace’s were there?

Only a page and a half

Might's Greater Toronto city directory, 1966 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Title varies: 1846/47, Brown's Toronto city and home district directory; 1850/51, Rowsell's City of Toronto and County of York directory; 1856, Brown's Toronto...

archive.org

And it looks like I miscounted the Mcs and Macs

There are 24 pages of Macs and 80 pages of Mcs.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Taken together, this isn’t “Orange man bad.” It’s a growing sense, even among people who’ve never heard the term, that the post-Cold War world Canadians grew up in no longer exists, and that safety and prosperity can’t be assumed anymore.

Orang man bad has a role to play in this. But IMHO he is but a symptom with others as your have mentioned.

The issue facing Canada is that since the '60s is we have chosen social welfare over nation building. And we have a lot of catch up to play if we intend to try and continue as the great nation that we are.

What isn't helping us is the bureaucracy and regionalism that has been allowed to root here. We can beat bureaucracy, we just need the will. Regionalism will be our stumbling block. This will take generations and electoral reform to undo.

Hey. I'm in the room.

I was born in '79... Do I count ?

 

[OldSolduer]

Comrades I give you!!!

Da eh?!

 

[FJAG]

Orang man bad has a role to play in this. But IMHO he is but a symptom with others as your have mentioned.

The issue facing Canada is that since the '60s is we have chosen social welfare over nation building. And we have a lot of catch up to play if we intend to try and continue as the great nation that we are.

What isn't helping us is the bureaucracy and regionalism that has been allowed to root here. We can beat bureaucracy, we just need the will. Regionalism will be our stumbling block. This will take generations and electoral reform to undo.

I think regionalism is a factor in any large country. Bureaucracy on the other hand should be something one can control. It's a problem whenever a a government tries to tweak things that go on under their jurisdiction because of the special interest groups that arise out of any democracy. The rules become so stilted and the costs of doing things become so complex and expensive that progress slows to a crawl.

I tend to read the Daily Mail a lot and the crap that goes on at all levels of the UK government - right down to the local municipalities - ought to be a lesson to us all as to how bad things can become.

I was born in '79... Do I count ?

 

[Kirkhill]

I think regionalism is a factor in any large country. Bureaucracy on the other hand should be something one can control. It's a problem whenever a a government tries to tweak things that go on under their jurisdiction because of the special interest groups that arise out of any democracy. The rules become so stilted and the costs of doing things become so complex and expensive that progress slows to a crawl.

I tend to read the Daily Mail a lot and the crap that goes on at all levels of the UK government - right down to the local municipalities - ought to be a lesson to us all as to how bad things can become.

It continues to amaze me that Westminster MPs engage with garbage pickups in West Bronwich as well as DNA identification of dog turds in Upper Middle Piddle Hinton and how to respond to riots in Tehran. Meanwhile national security is back-burnered.

 

[FJAG]

Only a page and a half

Might's Greater Toronto city directory, 1966 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Title varies: 1846/47, Brown's Toronto city and home district directory; 1850/51, Rowsell's City of Toronto and County of York directory; 1856, Brown's Toronto...

archive.org

And it looks like I miscounted the Mcs and Macs

There are 24 pages of Macs and 80 pages of Mcs.

Yup. My mom's house and number's in that.

Memories.

 

[Quirky]

Lockheed Martin delivers 191 F-35s in 2025 - Canadian Fighter Jet

Lockheed Martin delivered 191 F-35s in 2025, surpassing the previous delivery record of 142 jets. F-35 continued to prove its performance.

canadiandefencereview.com

Didn't realize it was that many. 1 every few days, pretty impressive for such a complicated aircraft. We need to get our remaining orders in now.