The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Colin Parkinson]

I doubt it. They didn't even enter the competition.

The French might consider leasing as being part of a FU to the US.

As for Martin and his his Defense Minister Bill Graham, they started the trek out of the dark era.

 

[ytz]

The French might consider leasing as being part of a FU to the US.

Jobs and speed of delivery will be the criteria. I don't think the French would qualify. Honestly, it'll probably be the Gripen.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Jobs and speed of delivery will be the criteria. I don't think the French would qualify. Honestly, it'll probably be the Gripen.

Nobody else is on the table regardless, it’s clear the Gripen is the only other option within consideration at the moment.

 

[ArmyRick]

do I recall Paul Martin being particularly opposed to increasing defence spending.

Martin was the best damn Liberal PM ever in my books. That man had me really thinking hard in 2004 election, on selecting conservative or liberal.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Martin was the best damn Liberal PM ever in my books. That man had me really thinking hard in 2004 election, on selecting conservative or liberal.

I agree. I believe that he had integrity.

 

[DBNSG]

I listen to the Herle Burly podcast on occasion and I have never once heard him be anything but enthusiastic about increasing the defence budget and investing in the CAF. Nor do I recall Paul Martin being particularly opposed to increasing defence spending. That was mostly a Chretien thing that Martin seems to have inherited for his short tenure in office.

Look up Herles recent episode with Dave Perry. He asks Perry what Fighter Canada should buy and Perry stuns him by casually
stating the F -35 for all the common sense reasons that allowed two different Canadian governments to make that choice.
Herle then tries to educate Dave on the philosophical reasons Liberals rationalized NOT SPENDING.

 

[OldSolduer]

I agree. I believe that he had integrity.

Yes. Agreed.

Too bad there aren’t more like him.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Martin was the best damn Liberal PM ever in my books. That man had me really thinking hard in 2004 election, on selecting conservative or liberal.

Chreatin was corrupt but competent, Martin was successful enough not to be corrupt.

 

[KevinB]

Jobs and speed of delivery will be the criteria. I don't think the French would qualify. Honestly, it'll probably be the Gripen.

Fastest way into a new ‘car".
In terms of annual production and availability ARO:
*assuming on doesn’t want a Chinese J-10C

1)Lockheed Martin F-16V Block 70/72
2) Boeing F-15EX Eagle II
3) Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
Unfortunately all American made so that doesn’t really make the cut in terms of limiting the F-35.

4) Eurofighter Typhoon
5) Dassault Rafale
6) Saab JAS 39E/F Gripen


Currently the job front has the F-35 leading.

Given what our Administration is doing currently - one cannot blame Canada for looking for other options.

 

[Gordon Dundas/]

Chreatin was corrupt but competent, Martin was successful enough not to be corrupt.

I wqs always amused by Chretien' lawsuit against the Judge who had presided over the Government Commission on Corruption.
For calling him "Small town cheap." Because he used to hand out golf balls labeled with Prime Minister of Canada Jean Chretien .
He described him like being the Mayor of a small town or something.
Chretien sued and won as I recall.

 

[Altair]

Fastest way into a new ‘car".
In terms of annual production and availability ARO:
*assuming on doesn’t want a Chinese J-10C

1)Lockheed Martin F-16V Block 70/72

We are not buying American.

2) Boeing F-15EX Eagle II

We are not buying american.

3) Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

We are not buying Boeing or American.

Unfortunately all American made so that doesn’t really make the cut in terms of limiting the F-35.

This

4) Eurofighter Typhoon

No jobs in it for Canada.

5) Dassault Rafale

No jobs in it for Canada.

6) Saab JAS 39E/F Gripen

Jobs and its not American.

Currently the job front has the F-35 leading.

Given what our Administration is doing currently - one cannot blame Canada for looking for other options.

Finally you say the quiet part out loud.

 

[KevinB]

We are not buying American.

We are not buying american.

We are not buying Boeing or American.

This

No jobs in it for Canada.

No jobs in it for Canada.

Jobs and its not American.

Oh well unfortunately it got a US engine and some other stuff that could make it a no/go

Finally you say the quiet part out loud.

He’s advocating economic suicide between two long term partners.
While I think everyone can agree that Canada freeloaded for decades, it is hard to rationalize his current stance on Canadian trade (and many other things) given Canada is spending more.

 

[Good2Golf]

5) Dassault Rafale

No jobs in it for Canada.

Thats not a known fact. France and Dassault just never got that far because Canada was being all Trudeauish.

6) Saab JAS 39E/F Gripen

Jobs and its not American.

Its engine and its avionics are and/or US ITAR controlled. Doesn’t anyone here really think that Trump wouldn’t have Marco Rubio freeze the sale based on its ITAR veto?

 

[KevinB]

Thats not a known fact. France and Dassault just never got that far because Canada was being all Trudeauish.

If Canada wanted to be truly independent from US tech in that respect that Aircraft is the only option that is available from a friendly allied nation.

Its engine and its avionics are and/or US ITAR controlled. Doesn’t anyone here really think that Trump wouldn’t have Marco Rubio freeze the sale based on its ITAR veto?

I still hope that some sanity can be restored, on both sides of the border.

 

[Altair]

Its engine and its avionics are and/or US ITAR controlled. Doesn’t anyone here really think that Trump wouldn’t have Marco Rubio freeze the sale based on its ITAR veto?

Oh well unfortunately it got a US engine and some other stuff that could make it a no/go

I would love the stampede to the exits from every other defense manufacturer if the USA started blocking sales of foreign jets due to wanting for force another nation to buy their kit.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Fastest way into a new ‘car".
In terms of annual production and availability ARO:
*assuming on doesn’t want a Chinese J-10C

1)Lockheed Martin F-16V Block 70/72
2) Boeing F-15EX Eagle II
3) Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
Unfortunately all American made so that doesn’t really make the cut in terms of limiting the F-35.

4) Eurofighter Typhoon
5) Dassault Rafale
6) Saab JAS 39E/F Gripen


Currently the job front has the F-35 leading.

Given what our Administration is doing currently - one cannot blame Canada for looking for other options.

South Korean KF-21, but the chances of that happening are pretty slim.

Or Leonardo's M-346. We are buying 20+ for advance trainers, buy 40-50 more for light-strike fighter/recce/NORAD, etc. If we go that route maybe Leonardo would give us a god deal on their AW249 Fenice attack helicopter.

 

[Czech_pivo]

South Korean KF-21, but the chances of that happening are pretty slim.

Or Leonardo's M-346. We are buying 20+ for advance trainers, buy 40-50 more for light-strike fighter/recce/NORAD, etc. If we go that route maybe Leonardo would give us a god deal on their AW249 Fenice attack helicopter.

Buying more M-346, in the numbers you suggest, would pretty much hitch our wagon to GCAP

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Buying more M-346, in the numbers you suggest, would pretty much hitch our wagon to GCAP

Why??

 

[ytz]

I would love the stampede to the exits from every other defense manufacturer if the USA started blocking sales of foreign jets due to wanting for force another nation to buy their kit.

You're right. But also we know this administration is that petty.