The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Czech_pivo]

....where Canada decides to pull from the program and buy 88 Gripens.

Not going to happen.
We've paid for the first 16 already.
Its either we stick with the F35 or we go with a mixed fleet.
I don't see any world where we take a loss on the cost for the first 16 F35's and go only with the Gripen. Trump would never give us the money back for the 16 F35's.

 

[Quirky]

I don't see any world where we take a loss on the cost for the first 16 F35's and go only with the Gripen.

Snowbirds need a replacement for the Tutor. 16 F35s would be ideal.

 

[dapaterson]

Not going to happen.
We've paid for the first 16 already.
Its either we stick with the F35 or we go with a mixed fleet.
I don't see any world where we take a loss on the cost for the first 16 F35's and go only with the Gripen. Trump would never give us the money back for the 16 F35's.

We have committed to pay for them - the cheques haven't all cleared yet. And committed to an ongoing relationship with the JSF office including ongoing payments.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It's simple, you take those we already paid for, then for the next 2.5 years you dither on the next buy and talk a lot about alternatives. When the Orange buffoon goes away, you sit down and order some more, unless the Europeans have offered us a far better deal.

 

[GR66]

Snowbirds need a replacement for the Tutor. 16 F35s would be ideal.

It would be a pretty boring show since you can't see them...

Trump genuinely seems to believe F-35s are literally invisible

I'm reasonably sure Trump thinks F-35s are literally invisible. He's said as much more than once, including curious comments yesterday.

www.msnbc.com

 

[Quirky]

It would be a pretty boring show since you can't see them...

Trump genuinely seems to believe F-35s are literally invisible

I'm reasonably sure Trump thinks F-35s are literally invisible. He's said as much more than once, including curious comments yesterday.

www.msnbc.com

Just turn the stealth/invisibility switch to OFF or INOP.

 

[KevinB]

It's simple, you take those we already paid for, then for the next 2.5 years you dither on the next buy and talk a lot about alternatives. When the Orange buffoon goes away, you sit down and order some more, unless the Europeans have offered us a far better deal.

That is about the worst COA.
Canada needs them now, or actually sooner than now.

There isn’t a better option currently.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Snowbirds need a replacement for the Tutor. 16 F35s would be ideal.

Well, since the South Koreans are trying to sell us submarines, tanks, artillery, etc I'm surprised they haven't offered the T-50B Aerobatic Demonstrator which is a version of their T-50 Trainer dedicated for aerobatic displays.

 

[Czech_pivo]

That is about the worst COA.
Canada needs them now, or actually sooner than now.

There isn’t a better option currently.

Canada quietly dropped its latest soft wood lumber anti-dumping challenge today.
Yesterday McGuinty went to meet with Pete Hegseth without the CDN media being informed.
Canada didn’t announce its F35 decision yesterday/today when its publicly announced deadline yesterday.
Carney is in NYC at the same time as Trump.
Are all these things dovetailing into some sort of announcement/agreement before Carney leaves NYC tomorrow?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

That is about the worst COA.
Canada needs them now, or actually sooner than now.

There isn’t a better option currently.

We are going to have our hands full training pilots and maintainers on the ones we have already bought, a 2 year delay will not end the RCAF and give them time to sort out the security and infrastructure issues.

 

[KevinB]

We are going to have our hands full training pilots and maintainers on the ones we have already bought, a 2 year delay will not end the RCAF and give them time to sort out the security and infrastructure issues.

Pilot training is down here initially.
As well the initial ones will be here to assist that until you can base them up somewhere that has the security issues sorted.

But you won’t find another platform in Europe, you may for an Augmentation/Replacement, but even then I wouldn’t hold my breath.

 

[OldSolduer]

Canada needs them now, or actually sooner than now.

The 18s are about done. Or close to it. Yesterday would have been nice.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Pilot training is down here initially.
As well the initial ones will be here to assist that until you can base them up somewhere that has the security issues sorted.

But you won’t find another platform in Europe, you may for an Augmentation/Replacement, but even then I wouldn’t hold my breath.

The idea is make the US start thinking about what it says, delaying and discussing alternatives 2 years gives us some leverage.

 

[JLB50]

It would be a pretty boring show since you can't see them...

Trump genuinely seems to believe F-35s are literally invisible

I'm reasonably sure Trump thinks F-35s are literally invisible. He's said as much more than once, including curious comments yesterday.

www.msnbc.com

I remember reading a few years back how Trump once admitted to an advisor (possibly Michael Flynn) that he purposely ignored some factual statements in favour of what “sounds good”. And then he keeps on saying the same thing.

 

[KevinB]

The idea is make the US start thinking about what it says, delaying and discussing alternatives 2 years gives us some leverage.

Canada has no leverage in Defense issues.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Canada has no leverage in Defense issues.

One of the great ironies of our current relationship with the Excited States is that in the one issue that is actually true..we don't pull our weight.
And it's the one issue that Trump almost avoids tossing out except on occasion.
It's like he uncomfortable dealing with actual truths.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Canada has no leverage in Defense issues.

Which is why we may have to create some. The US has just lost a F-35 contract and is losing a bunch of other military contracts. You can bet that people are going to be concerned about US jobs being impacted. Plus for any Canadian government, domestically it will look good to not be to meek.

 

[QV]

One of the great ironies of our current relationship with the Excited States is that in the one issue that is actually true..we don't pull our weight.
And it's the one issue that Trump almost avoids tossing out except on occasion.
It's like he uncomfortable dealing with actual truths.

What you see in the media is almost all theatre.

Given the sudden commitments to getting to >2% defence spending, did you think that happened in a vacuum with the LPC alone deciding that, or do you think perhaps there have been many frank closed door discussions on that topic with our allies?

 

[KevinB]

Which is why we may have to create some. The US has just lost a F-35 contract and is losing a bunch of other military contracts. You can bet that people are going to be concerned about US jobs being impacted. Plus for any Canadian government, domestically it will look good to not be to meek.

Canada is meek. Trying to think you have any leverage in this situation is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

All kicking the can on the F-35 would do is reinforce Canada isn’t a reliable market.

95%+ of your defense suppliers in Canada are subsidiaries of foreign companies. Want to see job losses, well that’s what would happen if those companies decided to shutter their Canadian operations.

You’d end up with no LAV’s, no planes, no tanks, helicopters, ships etc.

 

[Quirky]

You’d end up with no LAV’s, no planes, no tanks, helicopters, ships etc.

Ankles up!

All kicking the can on the F-35 would do is reinforce Canada isn’t a reliable market.

Canada hasn't been a serious nation in a long, long time.