The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[MilEME09]

The future of the Snowbirds is a political decision, otherwise the CAF would've killed the program a long time ago.

in an age when the CAF isn't highly visable, never underestimate the COMREL value of the snowbirds, it isn't just a political interest, it is in the CAF's interest to keep the program going, just as much as the LdSH(RC) mounted troop.

 

[OldSolduer]

The future of the Snowbirds is a political decision, otherwise the CAF would've killed the program a long time ago.

Political within the CAF and the GoC

Institutional politics do play a role in this.

 

[YZT580]

The future of the Snowbirds is a political decision, otherwise the CAF would've killed the program a long time ago.

I can think of at least 2 members of the CAF who are there because of the Snowbirds. Don't underestimate their value. The pilots can be a bunch of prima donnas but the general public doesn't see that side of them, all they see is beautiful formation flying and it appeals.

 

[dapaterson]

I can think of at least 2 members of the CAF who are there because of the Snowbirds. Don't underestimate their value. The pilots can be a bunch of prima donnas but the general public doesn't see that side of them, all they see is beautiful formation flying and it appeals.

Two of roughly 100,000.

 

[Quirky]

I can think of at least 2 members of the CAF who are there because of the Snowbirds. Don't underestimate their value. The pilots can be a bunch of prima donnas but the general public doesn't see that side of them, all they see is beautiful formation flying and it appeals.

I’m not against the idea of demo team or teams. I’m saying the CAF has wanted to cut the unit for a long time. They see the dozen pilots and few dozen techs of the snowbirds more useful for real operations.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I’m not against the idea of demo team or teams. I’m saying the CAF has wanted to cut the unit for a long time. They see the dozen pilots and few dozen techs of the snowbirds more useful for real operations.

When we are sitting at less than 50 fighter pilots, having a dozen pilots in a demo team is a luxury we cannot continue to indulge.

 

[Quirky]

When we are sitting at less than 50 fighter pilots, having a dozen pilots in a demo team is a luxury we cannot continue to indulge.

Look up the team from the last few years. You might see one, maybe if you’re lucky two, pilots with fast-jet experience. Majority are still local instructor pilots or from rotary fleets. Shutting down the snowbirds won’t make a difference to fighter units. You’re still trying to stop the Hoover dam from leaking with bubble gum.

 

[YZT580]

Two of roughly 100,000.

who all saw the Snowbirds.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I’m not against the idea of demo team or teams. I’m saying the CAF has wanted to cut the unit for a long time. They see the dozen pilots and few dozen techs of the snowbirds more useful for real operations.

It is a wee bit more than a “few dozen techs”….

 

[SupersonicMax]

It is a wee bit more than a “few dozen techs”….

I think it’s actually 30 some ofd techs.

 

[Good2Golf]

We should logically cut all bumpf…Sky Hawks, Ceremonial Guard, others like that that are at least a posting away from valid operational employment.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I think it’s actually 30 some ofd techs.

I looked at their establishment a few years ago- it wasn't much smaller than a gun Sqn.

 

[markppcli]

We should logically cut all bumpf…Sky Hawks, Ceremonial Guard, others like that that are at least a posting away from valid operational employment.

Agreed on Sky Hawks, CG is summer employment for reservists and they'd otherwise not be working presumably. I'd throw the RCN's tall ship in there as well.

 

[armrdsoul77]

I think the CF is going to need the bumpf and more of it if they hope to grow the personnel in regular and reserve forces(or continue to lower the requirements to join).

 

[Colin Parkinson]

When we are sitting at less than 50 fighter pilots, having a dozen pilots in a demo team is a luxury we cannot continue to indulge.

And then you be down the Snowbirds, burned up political capital and you still have not fixed the systemic problems that have brought you to this point. With the likelhood of many those ex-snowbird pilots releasing. At least they are getting hours flying in aircraft that are relatively cheap to maintain. Instead of cutting stuff, focus on improving the current bases on all three elements. For the RCAF, make a plan to keep the Snowbirds and then re-acquire the training role with a multi-purpose trainer/fighter as ytz suggested.

The more the CAF divorces itself from the average Canadian, the less political will there will be to sustain the CAF. It's the cost of doing business when you are the most discretionary spending that the politicians can slash when the piggy bank is low.

 

[brihard]

CG is summer employment for reservists and they'd otherwise not be working presumably.

Or, take as many of those resources as possible and dedicate them to running/attending running DP1s and PLQs? CAF’s trying to grow, and junior instructors sound like a choke point. CFLRS just posted a whole bunch of three year REO positions with relocation offered. That suggests there will be a need for anyone available to bolster training throughput to OFP.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I looked at their establishment a few years ago- it wasn't much smaller than a gun Sqn.

Not quite. You can check on the APS Openings page on DWAN but it is less than 1/2 a line squadron (there are less than 40 techs) and it has been that way for years.

 

[markppcli]

Or, take as many of those resources as possible and dedicate them to running/attending running DP1s and PLQs? CAF’s trying to grow, and junior instructors sound like a choke point. CFLRS just posted a whole bunch of three year REO positions with relocation offered. That suggests there will be a need for anyone available to bolster training throughput to OFP.

Yeah i just mean we aren't taking people whod other wise be employed in force generation.

 

[GK .Dundas]

And then you be down the Snowbirds, burned up political capital and you still have not fixed the systemic problems that have brought you to this point. With the likelhood of many those ex-snowbird pilots releasing. At least they are getting hours flying in aircraft that are relatively cheap to maintain. Instead of cutting stuff, focus on improving the current bases on all three elements. For the RCAF, make a plan to keep the Snowbirds and then re-acquire the training role with a multi-purpose trainer/fighter as ytz suggested.

The more the CAF divorces itself from the average Canadian, the less political will there will be to sustain the CAF. It's the cost of doing business when you are the most discretionary spending that the politicians can slash when the piggy bank is low.

I'm not overly fond of the Snowbirds either but it seems to be case of they may be actually doing something useful at the moment .
They're showing the public we actually exist in a relatively concrete fashion.

 

[DBNSG]

And then you be down the Snowbirds, burned up political capital and you still have not fixed the systemic problems that have brought you to this point. With the likelhood of many those ex-snowbird pilots releasing. At least they are getting hours flying in aircraft that are relatively cheap to maintain. Instead of cutting stuff, focus on improving the current bases on all three elements. For the RCAF, make a plan to keep the Snowbirds and then re-acquire the training role with a multi-purpose trainer/fighter as ytz suggested.

The more the CAF divorces itself from the average Canadian, the less political will there will be to sustain the CAF. It's the cost of doing business when you are the most discretionary spending that the politicians can slash when the piggy bank is low.

To that point how many senior invisible Officers could be cut to truly free up resources to rebuild the institution?
Serious question as Canada is almost as bad as OZ with brass all over the place. I imagine if Carney took a weekend
with that big business brain seriously questioning things I think there would be some squirming at NDHQ. Then do the civilian
Senior ranks in DND.