The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Jarnhamar]

Not actively seeking out, defending from.

It should be a purple trade. You'd also want to maintain and grow the specialty aspects like air marshal, CP, TASO, port security, airfield security.. maintain use of force training for domestic ops.

If I was king for a day, I'd re-roll and re-name the MP branch - open it up to re-musters who have certain desired qualifications (CP). Focus entirely on all domain force protection for the CAF domestically and abroad. Force protection includes all the boring admin and tasks that goes with security - USS duties, Ident, security screening, physical security, access control, guard duties, BASF. I'd take all of this off the plate of the other L1s. No need for secondary duties dispersed about.

The mp do a lot of these tasks already - I figure if CAF wanted to trim off police duties - just rip the band-aide off and disband/re-roll into a CAF D&S or Force Protection trade, could significantly reduce the cost of contracting commissionaires at the same time. You'd have your CAF armed security force for domestic and deployed ops freeing up all the other trades to do their specific jobs entirely.

I think the CAF will be ditching policing sooner rather than later.

There is no more Navy police group or whatever it's called and they're getting rid of the Airforce group soon. Army element only. And the commands will apparently be imagalamated into Western, Central, Eastern, and NCR or HQ - which will also house CP, TASO, PSS etc. MPs are also losing their black police uniform and going to cadpat for everyone. It sounds like the CAF envisions MP going back to their field roots - standing on the side of a Latvian highway directing convoys.

CAF could look at taking MP badges away, canceling MP spec pay, and make the trade force protection/security guards.

 

[Maxman1]

It would be cool to create a new federal police force that can pass a sentence on the spot. Like a cop & judge all in one, but I digress.

 

[McG]

Some interesting ideas. It seems like it would be a lot of effort, resources, and manpower put into an organization not designed to actively seek out and fight bad guys.

This statement seems dismissive of all support occupations. I assume that is not your intent?

 

[Jarnhamar]

This statement seems dismissive of all support occupations. I assume that is not your intent?

You assume correctly.

 

[McG]

What makes security and force protection less deserving than other Operations Support functions that have established occupations?

 

[dapaterson]

What makes security and force protection less deserving than other Operations Support functions that have established occupations?

No niche PG program of limited utility at RMC?

 

[Jarnhamar]

What makes security and force protection less deserving than other Operations Support functions that have established occupations?

Economy of effort.

If we're talking about force protection that we can plop into a fob for security I'd imagine they should be trained on crew served weapons. Probably driving armored vehicles and utilizing their weapon systems. It seems wasteful not to be able to grab them and do traditional infantry tasks if the need comes up.

If we only expect them to man a gate or walk a perimeter inside an already secured compound or airfield then we can get away with less.

Between having to collapse infantry companies and armored squadrons, and some units having "MEL platoons" now, I don't think we have the manpower for a new trade that would take away from combat arms numbers even more.

 

[dapaterson]

Economy of effort.

If we're talking about force protection that we can plop into a fob for security I'd imagine they should be trained on crew served weapons. Probably driving armored vehicles and utilizing their weapon systems. It seems wasteful not to be able to grab them and do traditional infantry tasks if the need comes up.

If we only expect them to man a gate or walk a perimeter inside an already secured compound or airfield then we can get away with less.

Between having to collapse infantry companies and armored squadrons, and some units having "MEL platoons" now, I don't think we have the manpower for a new trade that would take away from combat arms numbers even more.

The new trade is predicated on expansion of the CAF, not reallocation from within existing numbers.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The new trade is predicated on expansion of the CAF, not reallocation from within existing numbers.

Nice. Hopefully the role gets expanded to armed security of all bases and installations.

 

[MacNav63]

I was stationed in NDHQ at that time; a lot of people I worked with thought it was really stupid, but someone in NDHQ wanted to score some brownie points with the local politicians.

101 Colonel By has frankly never made sense as a military headquarters or ministry of defence location, nor was it built as one. It was originally built for Transport Canada who turned it down in favour of Tower C at Place de Ville. Until the 90s it wasn't even fenced and traffic still passed underneath between Colonel By Drive and Nicholas. I remember during Gulf War I there would be a tow truck parked in the underpass in case it was needed quickly...

 

[Swampbuggy]

I went to Lisgar back in the day....I was able to walk from school, through the main floor at NDHQ to the Rideau Center to catch a bus.

Used to work in the basement at NDHQ in the records section at NDRLS, first as a summer student then as a contract for a few years. One day we had a special project, back around the Somalia Inquiry and I knew it might run late, so being a brain dead 20 year old, I thought I’d bring my boombox to help me get through the paperwork. Never gave it a thought that it was a dual cassette recorder capable unit and the Meathead at the North Tower entrance barely even registered it when I walked in and showed both it and my id card. I didn’t hear zip about it the whole afternoon but then finally my boss came around the corner and saw me and this Major who had been assigned to man a photocopier, grooving out and doing our thing. She was quite literally the only person who clocked or cared about it. She checked if there were recordings in the deck and then told me not to bring it back, but I didn’t get any real guff for it. Looking back on it now, I can’t believe that could happen. But, then that North Tower MP was far less interested in security and deeply focused on what was being offered at Treats in the Rideau Centre. Given he was about 6’5” and going probably 280, you didn’t get between him and his lemon cranberry muffin at break time…Priorities.

 

[Maxman1]

101 Colonel By has frankly never made sense as a military headquarters or ministry of defence location, nor was it built as one. It was originally built for Transport Canada who turned it down in favour of Tower C at Place de Ville. Until the 90s it wasn't even fenced and traffic still passed underneath between Colonel By Drive and Nicholas. I remember during Gulf War I there would be a tow truck parked in the underpass in case it was needed quickly...

And NDHQ was originally Nortel corporate headquarters. Supposedly, over 4,000 wiretaps were found after DND bought the property.

 

[PrairieFella]

RCMP policing the CAF seems more viable than creating another federal police force.

RCMP policing bases and the MPs actually being useful as provosts sounds good to me.

 

[PuckChaser]

Looking back to the actual aircraft, Lockmart is now producing more F35s in a year than total Gripen E/F orders. Over 1200 aircraft and counting or orphan fleet, tough call.

Lockheed Martin Delivered Record 191 F-35 Fighters in 2025

 

[OldSolduer]

101 Colonel By has frankly never made sense as a military headquarters or ministry of defence location, nor was it built as one. It was originally built for Transport Canada who turned it down in favour of Tower C at Place de Ville. Until the 90s it wasn't even fenced and traffic still passed underneath between Colonel By Drive and Nicholas. I remember during Gulf War I there would be a tow truck parked in the underpass in case it was needed quickly...

Again the CAF received a cast off building. It’s not the first time the military has received cast offs

 

[Seyek]

According to the CBC we need to buy 72 Gripens and 6 Globaleyes for 12k jobs. I think that number of jobs is suspicious at best and frankly ludicrous as others have already pointed out here, though maybe accounting trickery can play a role.

I'm actually a Gripen fanboy, I really like it, and I'm impressed that a country as small as Sweden has been able to maintain a robust defence industrial capability in many ways that comparatively we haven't been able to. I also think the F-35 is far and away the best path forward, in as large a number as we can get, supported by future purchases of CCA systems.

However - a mixed fleet, while introducing it's own problems, could be good if we tied it into a larger long term industrial strategy as part of our path to 5%. 65-88 F-35 and 72 Gripen while less capable than a larger F-35 force and still not addressing the American parts control problem keeps us both in the F-35 program and further builds out our own military aerospace industry. We should be looking at partnering with SAAB, and ideally other countries like South Korea with their KF-21, Turkey with their TF Kaan and various UAS systems, and others who might be interested in not being tied into US control (Ukraine, Poland?, Germany if they want to get away from arguing with France about joint development, even places like Indonesia or Saudi Arabia for funding support for their own future fleets) to fill in the gaps currently filled by US sourced hardware and lay out a roadmap for future development of the full spectrum of air systems. Locally produced Gripens could help build public support for that kind of program and between that and F-35 parts manufacturing help build our industrial base to build these future systems.

 

[MacNav63]

And NDHQ was originally Nortel corporate headquarters. Supposedly, over 4,000 wiretaps were found after DND bought the property.

Were it not for the demise of Silicon Valley North neither DND nor the RCMP, who occupy the old JDS Uniphase building in Barrhaven, would have had "new" buildings.

 

[MacNav63]

Again the CAF received a cast off building. It’s not the first time the military has received cast offs

Odd though how Finance/TBS got themselves a brand new purpose built edifice on Elgin...

 

[dapaterson]

Odd though how Finance/TBS got themselves a brand new purpose built edifice on Elgin...

Orders of magnitude smaller, though.

 

[IKnowNothing]

According to the CBC we need to buy 72 Gripens and 6 Globaleyes for 12k jobs. I think that number of jobs is suspicious at best and frankly ludicrous as others have already pointed out here, though maybe accounting trickery can play a role.

As has also been pointed out- the jobs are contingent on our order, but not likely not solely driven by producing our order

From the article

By setting up factories in Canada, Saab would produce fighter jets and surveillance aircraft for both the Royal Canadian Air Force and the export market.


Ukraine has shown interest for more than 100 Gripens, while potential customers for the GlobalEye include France and Germany.

To create more than 10,000 direct and indirect jobs in Canada, Saab plans production centres in Ontario and Quebec with a pan-Canadian supplier network.