The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Czech_pivo]

The big issue would be the different datalinks. The fighter community did have somewhat of a vision to move to MADL. Beyond that, the big issue has always been that all of the IT systems and good chunk of mission systems and software have to be CANUS certified for NORAD. These costs were enough to get Rafale and Typhoon to drop out before. There's a suspicion here that Saab is just telling us what we want to hear to get a contract.





Those numbers don't work. Two points.

1) Any dual fleet will definitely have to be larger. In part because of the transition.

2) We don't have the capacity to operate three fighter fleets simultaneously. The F-35 transition is already a huge lift for the RCAF at every level. From tech staff in Ottawa, to the training system to the infrastructure folks to security certification. Forcing the operation of three fighter fleets simultaneously and a double transition would break the RCAF. This means the transitions need to be sequenced and that means there need to be enough F-35s to retire the Hornet. That means 50-60 F-35s at least. Probably closer to the higher end.

And heck, even if this Gripen plan was announced today, zero chance they get a facility built and certified and delivering jets before 2031. By which point we'll have over 50 F-35s in service. To explain how hard this is. There's currently an effort to come up with a process to certify industrial facilities to Level III in Canada. That's right. We don't even have a way to certify a manufacturer to TS. A lot of Canadian OEMs don't even have certified SDAs. Let alone SCIFs. But now they're going to build 4.5 Gen combat jets?

The problem now is that having hyped up the Gripen to get concessions out of LockMart, there are so many America haters riled up who think the F-35 fleet should be 16. And Saab is saying 72 frames for a FAL. The government knows they need 50-60 F-35s. And they know that Gripen order if it happens won't be 70 frames. How do they break that news to their base?

So they’ve painted themselves into a nasty little corner here.

 

[GR66]

And heck, even if this Gripen plan was announced today, zero chance they get a facility built and certified and delivering jets before 2031. By which point we'll have over 50 F-35s in service. To explain how hard this is. There's currently an effort to come up with a process to certify industrial facilities to Level III in Canada. That's right. We don't even have a way to certify a manufacturer to TS. A lot of Canadian OEMs don't even have certified SDAs. Let alone SCIFs. But now they're going to build 4.5 Gen combat jets?

So, 65-88 x F-35's and Saab builds a plant to build UCAVs - or if FCAS falls apart as seems likely - a NextGen fighter collaboration between Sweden, Germany and Canada. Saab and Airbus are already talking collaboration on UCAV's and CCA's and there are feelers out between Sweden and Germany already for an FCAS replacement.

Design and building the plant would almost certainly be after the final F-35's are delivered so no three fleet issues and Canada would end up with a domestic production facility for non-ITAR airframes (uncrewed and/or crewed) while still having full interoperability with the US with the F-35's.

Sweden Pushes Ahead With Future Fighter Program

Crewed or uncrewed, or both, Sweden’s next-generation air combat program just got an important boost. Crewed or uncrewed, or both, Sweden’s next-generation air combat program just got an important boost.

www.twz.com

 

[Maxman1]

So, 65-88 x F-35's and Saab builds a plant to build UCAVs - or if FCAS falls apart as seems likely - a NextGen fighter collaboration between Sweden, Germany and Canada. Saab and Airbus are already talking collaboration on UCAV's and CCA's and there are feelers out between Sweden and Germany already for an FCAS replacement.

The government has expressed interest in GCAP, not FCAS. It's unlikely we'll get involved in FCAS.

 

[ytz]

if FCAS falls apart as seems likely - a NextGen fighter collaboration between Sweden, Germany and Canada. Saab and Airbus are already talking collaboration on UCAV's and CCA's and there are feelers out between Sweden and Germany already for an FCAS replacement.

The government has expressed interest in GCAP, not FCAS. It's unlikely we'll get involved in FCAS.

Saab couldn't build a 5th Gen jet. It's why they built the Super Gripen. They aren't in a 6th gen program. The idea that they'll be a major prime in a completely new 6th Gen program is a stretch I wouldn't want to bet the future of the RCAF on.

 

[suffolkowner]

Saab couldn't build a 5th Gen jet. It's why they built the Super Gripen. They aren't in a 6th gen program. The idea that they'll be a major prime in a completely new 6th Gen program is a stretch I wouldn't want to bet the future of the RCAF on.

which one of the euros has built a 5th gen jet?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

How many of the CF-18's are operational at any one time? I suspect that for quite sometime, the limiting factors will be secure, connected hangers for the F35, security teams, pilots and maintainers.

 

[Czech_pivo]

How many of the CF-18's are operational at any one time? I suspect that for quite sometime, the limiting factors will be secure, connected hangers for the F35, security teams, pilots and maintainers.

My question would be, are we investing any time/effort in training new pilots on the F18 or are they going straight to the F35?

 

[ytz]

which one of the euros has built a 5th gen jet?

Sure. But some of them have more IP to get them closer to the destination than the rest.

 

[ytz]

My question would be, are we investing any time/effort in training new pilots on the F18 or are they going straight to the F35?

Both. Right now only a handful of fairly skilled, mostly instructor pilots have been selected for conversion to the F-35. They need this to be able to help develop training and inform the conversion process in the future. Once we move past IOC new pilots will be pipelined to the F-35 and the CF-18 sunsets.