"The stuff the army issues is useless" and "no non-issue kit over seas!"

[geo]

Sometimes buying of non-issued kit is required. A fair number of us troops deploying on 1-08 have not even been issued our tan boots yet, and the forecast for the date of possible issue is "maybe before the tour, or while you are in theatre." Now this is fairly ridiculous, because I want to be able to break them in before I hit the sand, not to mention the fact how big a pain in the butt it would be to wear black for the first while. I'm reaching the point where I say **** it and buy my own. I want to get them issued to save $$$$ but I'm not waiting on the army to take its sweet time to get them to me. And the kicker is we've just been issued brand new Arid gas mask carriers for some reason.

Wearing Black....
If you look at all photos of all our LAVs, Leo2s & SMP vehicles which we've taken over to Afghanistan, they all left "green" and within days of being in the field - they've blended into the dusty contryside... No tan paint (Xcept for the RG31s that were delivered from South Africa in Tan).
You will get your desert boots - but your black boots will blend in just as quickly as the vehicles did.

 

[McG]

Geo,
All the green vehicles in theatre look like green vehicles.

 

[Stauds]

My point is being missed. We have been authorized to wear our tan boots for the specific reason to break them in before the tour. Not only is this not possible anymore, we have no idea when/if we will receive our boots. I still have my fingers crossed that I receive them soon, because I do not want to have to buy some.

And there are a few reasons why wearing black is not a good thing. It attracts even more heat, making the feet unnecessarily uncomfortable, and the issued Mark III's leather has always stretched on me causing problems. As well I've already mentioned having to break in the boots, which would be ideally done before deployment, not when I arrive at a FOB.

 

[COBRA-6]

My point is being missed. We have been authorized to wear our tan boots for the specific reason to break them in before the tour. Not only is this not possible anymore, we have no idea when/if we will receive our boots. I still have my fingers crossed that I receive them soon, because I do not want to have to buy some.

And there are a few reasons why wearing black is not a good thing. It attracts even more heat, making the feet unnecessarily uncomfortable, and the issued Mark III's leather has always stretched on me causing problems. As well I've already mentioned having to break in the boots, which would be ideally done before deployment, not when I arrive at a FOB.

We did the same on my tour, that's when I decided the issued Boulet boots were junk and bought my own SWAT's.

 

[armyvern]

My point is being missed. We have been authorized to wear our tan boots for the specific reason to break them in before the tour. Not only is this not possible anymore, we have no idea when/if we will receive our boots. I still have my fingers crossed that I receive them soon, because I do not want to have to buy some.

And there are a few reasons why wearing black is not a good thing. It attracts even more heat, making the feet unnecessarily uncomfortable, and the issued Mark III's leather has always stretched on me causing problems. As well I've already mentioned having to break in the boots, which would be ideally done before deployment, not when I arrive at a FOB.

I just told you when you'd get them if you didn't have them prior to your deployment -- Hint: it'll happen before your arrival in Afghanistan during your pitstop.

I also said it's been a while now. Do we have to go through the same thing every deployment? The kit is limited -- talk to the taxpayers about increasing our budget so we can afford more!!

CANFORGEN 016/05 CLS 281806Z (Since 2005 -- and STILL in effect due to the same shortages)

Para 11b

DESERT COMBAT CLOTHING AND EQUIPMENT ALLOWS SOLDIERS TO PERFORM MISSION ESSENTIAL TASKS BY PROVIDING ENHANCED CAMOUFLAGE AND CONCEALMENT CAPABILITIES THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO AFFORD PROTECTION IN ARID REGIONS. DESERT COMBAT CLOTHING AND EQUIPMENT WILL BE ISSUED AS REQUIRED IN SUPPORT OF OPERATIONS. STOCKS ARE PRESENTLY LIMITED AND AS SUCH DESERT ITEMS ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR GENERAL ISSUE NOR AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITHIN CANADA

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

MCG the dust does a considerable job turning green machines into a tannish colour.  I also feel your pain for desert boots though.

 

[MG34]

If I may make a point here, as an Infantryman:
There are some good reasons why we tell the troops only issue kit:
1. It's easy on the supply side of things....for instance if every troop had his choice of small arms, you'd have very kind of calibre to resup under the sun. I know this is a "apples vs oranges" comparison, but if you think about how it applies to uniform items, you can see where it is applicable. Its the same for boots. It might be nice to have a pair of "Gucci" desert boots, but if you are way out beyond the wire and need new boots, you're going to get the issue pair, not the "Gucci" ones you paid $300 for.
2. Troops should look somewhat the same, not identical mind you, but similar. In wartime, looking different draws fire, in peacetime it draws Sergeants.

1. It makes no difference to the supply system, as the issued kit will be issued regardless, all soldiers know this yet still purchase  so called "gucci" kit (I call it superior, effective,better,etc) why is that? Because our CTS items for the most part are useless in any role much less theabuse they are put through in the Afghanistan theatre.

2. Troops should not look the same because they all do not do the same job , otherwise you wind up with a useless piece of equipment such as the Tac Vest, a soldier's appearance should reflect his position and current tasks, not what some idiot has declared so in an outdated manual. Uniformity is an outdated concept that belongs only on the parade square.

Now having said that, I understand why troops buy their own stuff. Sometimes for functionality, or comfort or whatever, even a morale booster, as long as it doesn't compromise the overall look of the company/pl, I say go for it. If a soldier can do his job better with it, it should be good to go. One has to use a touch of common sense when it comes to dress and equipement in the field.
I remember a CLS telling us it was not acceptable for the troops to buy Danner or Matterhorn boots, and wear them as it was "his" job toi supply the troops. One of the soldiers piped up that maybe it was time to get with the 90's and not the 60's. I tened to agree with the soldier.
I remember in 1977 when we weren't issued bush hats and had to patrol in green berets, and this was a Regular Force battalion, not the "militia". One of us had a bush hat, but wasn't allowed to wear it as it was not "uniform".
As for the armchair RSMs, most of them haven't been anywhere near a theatre of operations for some time, if at all

The curerent stance taken by the commanders in Afghanistan WRT kit,is the opposite of common sense , the soldiers know what works and will use it regardless of what their CofC decides, knee jerk decisions by these dinosaurs only serve to further erode the bridge between higher command and the troops on the ground.

 

[OldSolduer]

Thank you MG34.....good points, and by the way I agree with you. Devil's Advocate here!
It should make no difference what a soldier wears on operations. If you view pictures from WWII, Korea etc, I'm sure that no two were very dressed alike. I agree, uniformity belongs on the parade square. And the Germans in WWII on ops were never dressed alike.
The reason I personally go with issue kit (for the moment) is that I am a skinflint...yes I'm cheap!! If in future I deploy, I may have to invest some $$ into better kit.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Based on what we had before (jean jacket, 64 pat, cotton thermal uwear etc) our new gear is just awesome,  ;Dso I'm a bad complainer in this regard I'm afraid. Drinking the CTS program juice here on the west coast .... ;D

 

[Armymedic]

Given the weather and time of year you are going over, Cbt boots (black boots) may be better. It is still the wet /cool season until Mid Mar. I found my Mk3s good walking through the wet wadis and on the rocks in Feb/Mar. But I do have a bit different role, and I had no issues in getting my Swats broken in prior to going over.

 

[Stauds]

I just told you when you'd get them if you didn't have them prior to your deployment -- Hint: it'll happen before your arrival in Afghanistan during your pitstop.

I also said it's been a while now. Do we have to go through the same thing every deployment? The kit is limited -- talk to the taxpayers about increasing our budget so we can afford more!!

CANFORGEN 016/05 CLS 281806Z (Since 2005 -- and STILL in effect due to the same shortages)

Para 11b

I just told you when you'd get them if you didn't have them prior to your deployment -- Hint: it'll happen before your arrival in Afghanistan during your pitstop.

I also said it's been a while now. Do we have to go through the same thing every deployment? The kit is limited -- talk to the taxpayers about increasing our budget so we can afford more!!

CANFORGEN 016/05 CLS 281806Z (Since 2005 -- and STILL in effect due to the same shortages)

Para 11b

While I don't disagree with you that I will most likely get them prior to my deployment, my point is it's a little late for that. I don't want to get issued my tan boots en-route to the desert. I want to have them now so I can break them in before I have to deploy. That's my biggest concern. You could argue that I just have to suck it up. I will choose to buy myself a pair of boots so that when I do deploy I will have a reliable pair. The last thing I would want is to have new boots cause problems that might jeapordize a mission or someone's safety.

When you mention limited kit because of limited funding, I already brought up the fact that we were issued Arid gas mask carriers. I think it's a complete waste of money to issue something that doesn't even get used when all the troops haven't yet been issued the bare bones of our equipment: boots. I know this is a completely different subject, and I'm going to be the first to say I am nowhere near an expert. It's just a bit of a joke when I am given some obviously expensive (more so than normal) kit, but I still haven't even been issued the thing an infanteer needs most. To me it seems some people higher up don't have their priorities straight. Like I said, I'm sure there are lots of things I don't understand, but that's my perspective on the subject.

 

[armyvern]

While I don't disagree with you that I will most likely get them prior to my deployment, my point is it's a little late for that. I don't want to get issued my tan boots en-route to the desert. I want to have them now so I can break them in before I have to deploy. That's my biggest concern. You could argue that I just have to suck it up. I will choose to buy myself a pair of boots so that when I do deploy I will have a reliable pair. The last thing I would want is to have new boots cause problems that might jeapordize a mission or someone's safety.

When you mention limited kit because of limited funding, I already brought up the fact that we were issued Arid gas mask carriers. I think it's a complete waste of money to issue something that doesn't even get used when all the troops haven't yet been issued the bare bones of our equipment: boots. I know this is a completely different subject, and I'm going to be the first to say I am nowhere near an expert. It's just a bit of a joke when I am given some obviously expensive (more so than normal) kit, but I still haven't even been issued the thing an infanteer needs most. To me it seems some people higher up don't have their priorities straight. Like I said, I'm sure there are lots of things I don't understand, but that's my perspective on the subject.

Understand this:

Different funding goes to different projects. They money is NOT in a central little pool that can be moved around from this PM to that PM as you or I would wish to see.

There's a whole lot more than that involved.

Quite frankly, don't blame the Supply Techs, don't blame the staffer at CTS who can't do anything about it either, don't blame the different project managers who only have some say in where their specific funds go ...

Blame the appropriate political authorities who are responsible for funding this outfit and enabling us to be able to afford the kit we need. ALL of it.

Because CTS is spending some of their project monies on AR gas mask carriers has squat to do with the fact that a totally different entity doesn't have the monies it requires to buy boots and all the other equipment they are responsible for.

In the case of footwear --- you can place the blame for the current situation squarely on the shoulders of Canadian Industry who bitched and whined that soldiers WERE getting the footwear that they needed from a US source of supply. Canadian Industry had a problem with that. Ergo ... now the Canadian Industry is being called upon, as per their DEMAND, to outfit our troops ... and quite the lovely job they're doing eh?

(Maybe, just maybe, ... that's a BIG hint why the footwear was coming from a US source of Supply in the first place)

That is pure POLITICS. Whine and cry all you want, but there's not a damn thing that I (even though I'd love to), you, the CDS or anyone else can do about it ... when Canadian Industry wants to push their "Canadian Content" crap into the kit you get ... at your expense.

Talk to your MLA. Get them involved and make them aware how this 'lil political move is satisfying Canadian Industry at YOUR expense. Then, you may have a slim shot in heck about changing the way things are.

It doesn't sound very nice, but that is the way it is.

 

[Shamrock]

What kind of desert boots are we getting now that take more than 8 steps to break in?

 

[dapaterson]

That is pure POLITICS. Whine and cry all you want, but there's not a damn thing that I (even though I'd love to), you, the CDS or anyone else can do about it ... when Canadian Industry wants to push their "Canadian Content" crap into the kit you get ... at your expense.

Talk to your MLA. Get them involved and make them aware how this 'lil political move is satisfying Canadian Industry at YOUR expense. Then, you may have a slim shot in heck about changing the way things are.

One minor nit to pick:  Members of the Legislative Assembly (MLA) are provincial.  The beef is with Members of Parliament (MP).

Other than that:  Vern, don't hold back.  Tell us what you really think

 

[armyvern]

One minor nit to pick:  Members of the Legislative Assembly (MLA) are provincial.  The beef is with Members of Parliament (MP).

Other than that:  Vern, don't hold back.  Tell us what you really think

Can you tell that I'm not a very politicly correct person??  ;D

I get all things political all fucked up ... all the time.

Talk to YOUR politicians!! That's what I meant to say!!  >

(Vern gets out whip & punishes dapaterson, who gets his political-terms correct.)  :-*

Oh, BTW ... I got in trouble at work today .... SURPRISE !! (The rye&cokes after work have calmed me down -- be thankful!! ;D

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Danners take a bit to work in.

 

[Stauds]

Understand this:

Different funding goes to different projects. They money is NOT in a central little pool that can be moved around from this PM to that PM as you or I would wish to see.

There's a whole lot more than that involved.

Quite frankly, don't blame the Supply Techs, don't blame the staffer at CTS who can't do anything about it either, don't blame the different project managers who only have some say in where their specific funds go ...

Blame the appropriate political authorities who are responsible for funding this outfit and enabling us to be able to afford the kit we need. ALL of it.

Because CTS is spending some of their project monies on AR gas mask carriers has squat to do with the fact that a totally different entity doesn't have the monies it requires to buy boots and all the other equipment they are responsible for.

In the case of footwear --- you can place the blame for the current situation squarely on the shoulders of Canadian Industry who bitched and whined that soldiers WERE getting the footwear that they needed from a US source of supply. Canadian Industry had a problem with that. Ergo ... now the Canadian Industry is being called upon, as per their DEMAND, to outfit our troops ... and quite the lovely job they're doing eh?

(Maybe, just maybe, ... that's a BIG hint why the footwear was coming from a US source of Supply in the first place)

That is pure POLITICS. Whine and cry all you want, but there's not a damn thing that I (even though I'd love to), you, the CDS or anyone else can do about it ... when Canadian Industry wants to push their "Canadian Content" crap into the kit you get ... at your expense.

Talk to your MLA. Get them involved and make them aware how this 'lil political move is satisfying Canadian Industry at YOUR expense. Then, you may have a slim shot in heck about changing the way things are.

It doesn't sound very nice, but that is the way it is.

You are very right Vern, I know I don't need to tell you that. However it may have seemed, I wasn't griping about our supply system, because I know how well they do with what they have.

The whole issue with the boots is my reason for having to buy non issue kit, as per the topic of the thread.

My other non-issued kit I will be bringing to theatre and wearing besides boots are:
-gloves (Oakley)
-ballistic eyewear (Oakley as well)
-chest rig (High Speed Gear Inc)
-rifle sling
-and who could forget socks and underwear?

 

[PhilB]

As everyone knows I am a big kit slut, I would save your time and just buy boots. The issued ones are junk anyways. What I dont get is desert socks. When we got our AR stuff issued we were told that there are no more desert socks being made, and that stock is dwindling. We were told we *may* get some issued in Mirage, but not to hold our breath. In their place we were issued 3 pairs of the thin black liner sock from the CTS sock system. All I can say is WTF?

 

[Gunner98]

As everyone knows I am a big kit slut, I would save your time and just buy boots. The issued ones are junk anyways. What I dont get is desert socks. When we got our AR stuff issued we were told that there are no more desert socks being made, and that stock is dwindling. We were told we *may* get some issued in Mirage, but not to hold our breath. In their place we were issued 3 pairs of the thin black liner sock from the CTS sock system. All I can say is WTF?

Perhaps if some Bases had not decided to issue 8 pairs of AR socks to folks in Aug-Sep timeframe, there might not be a shortage.  Kitting in Pet - 6 pairs, pre-depl trg in Kingston - 2 more because Sup Tech said so.

Army Vern what is the Scale and do we really need 8 at a time?

 

[PhilB]

heres the issue I have. I got issued 3 Brown t Shirts and 3 pairs of black liner socks. The majority of the smaller FOB's dont have laundry. So we are supposed to get by with basically 3 changes of under clothes for about a month in desert conditions  : ridiculous. Obviously, being the kit slut that I am, I have already bought tshirts and socks to make up the deficiency, but really, its at the point where we need to buy our own shirts and socks? Come on!