The vibe shift, end of "wokeness"?

[brihard]

How so? What is this guess based on? Yes, we know I strongly support Pierre but I am asking, what is this guess based on?

Everywhere Pierre goes in Canada and abroad, he is very friendly and comfortable talking to people. So not at all sure why you think this.

It’s probably a matter of who would talk to him or his delegates beyond the politically obvious, how much time they would give him, and how much credibility would be lent to his policy proposals. PM Carney has been able to walk into many rooms and gatherings as a proven and trusted quantity based on a very extensive body of previous work. Poilievre would not have that because he basically lacks any real body of previous work.

 

[ArmyRick]

PM Carney has been able to walk into many rooms and gatherings

I would never have disputed this. PM MC is very well known internationally, that comes with his experience.
What says Pierre can't reach out internationally?

how much credibility would be lent to his policy proposals.

In Pierre's case, all we can do is guess. Thats it.

basically lacks any real body of previous work.

PM MC is better known internationally, but as he found out, Pierre has much experience at politics here at home. When the two go head to head in parliament, its Pierre that usually gets the better of him. Even CTV has admitted this.

Lets be honest, its all conjecture. What I suspect is people looking for yet another chance to shit on Pierre based on hypotheticals.

Try going after Pierre for LEGIT concerns. Like bridging with ALL the premiers in Canada (including Dougie, but not kissing Kory Tenyke's ass), taking the time to sell his proposals to the common Canadian better (on energy, he has similar ideas to PM MC but wants to get it done quicker by removing road bumps), doing more to connect with first nations (he has a few that are really behind him), etc.

When people start speculating about stuff that hasn't happened, it comes across as what CBC basically does, petty BS.

 

[brihard]

I would never have disputed this. PM MC is very well known internationally, that comes with his experience.
What says Pierre can't reach out internationally?

In Pierre's case, all we can do is guess. Thats it.

PM MC is better known internationally, but as he found out, Pierre has much experience at politics here at home. When the two go head to head in parliament, its Pierre that usually gets the better of him. Even CTV has admitted this.

Lets be honest, its all conjecture. What I suspect is people looking for yet another chance to shit on Pierre based on hypotheticals.

Try going after Pierre for LEGIT concerns. Like bridging with ALL the premiers in Canada (including Dougie, but not kissing Kory Tenyke's ass), taking the time to sell his proposals to the common Canadian better (on energy, he has similar ideas to PM MC but wants to get it done quicker by removing road bumps), doing more to connect with first nations (he has a few that are really behind him), etc.

When people start speculating about stuff that hasn't happened, it comes across as what CBC basically does, petty BS.

It’s almost all conjecture. The observable data point of the seat counts in Parliament doesn’t support the claim that the leader of the minority opposition ‘usually gets the better of’ the PM.

 

[ArmyRick]

It’s almost all conjecture. The observable data point of the seat counts in Parliament doesn’t support the claim that the leader of the minority opposition ‘usually gets the better of’ the PM.

More conjecture. Unless you can brain scan the floor crossers, only they know truly the REAL reason they crossed. On that note, not one of the floor crossers listed Pierre as the reason they had to leave the CPC, not one. And a few were directly asked.

 

[brihard]

More conjecture. Unless you can brain scan the floor crossers, only they know truly the REAL reason they crossed. On that note, not one of the floor crossers listed Pierre as the reason they had to leave the CPC, not one. And a few were directly asked.

That’s nice, but under his watch as leader of the official opposition, the government turned a minority into a majority. That’s a tangible. If you want to say his leadership of the opposition is not a factor, cool, have at ‘er, I’m not going to sit here and argue with you on that.

In any case, we’ve drifted pretty far off topic so I’ll leave it at that on this subject.

 

[ArmyRick]

the government turned a minority into a majority.

According to 4/5 floor crossers, Mark Carney's outstanding leadership was a big reason they crossed.

That’s a tangible

You want tangibles? I can list PM Carney's campaign promises and see how many he dropped the ball on. Sure, Liberals are great at promises and excuses.

If you want to say his leadership of the opposition is not a factor, cool, have at ‘er

87% approval at his leadership review. Maybe us card carrying conservatives are just really stupid? Or other people have motives to try and torpedo Pierre's position (ohhhh, like running or supporting someone they want?).

 

[Furniture]

What says Pierre can't reach out internationally?

It isn't about being able to ask for meetings, it's about having a network pre-built that opens more doors.

Ever CAF leader worth anything understands the power of a network, and that power is multiplied exponentially as a national leader. PMMC has a far wider and more diverse network than a younger career politician. Pretending otherwise is just being silly.

 

[ArmyRick]

PMMC has a far wider and more diverse network than a younger career politician

If you read my comments, I don't dispute that. Being a national leader is more than just good excellent international networks.

 

[Czech_pivo]

How so? What is this guess based on? Yes, we know I strongly support Pierre but I am asking, what is this guess based on?

Everywhere Pierre goes in Canada and abroad, he is very friendly and comfortable talking to people. So not at all sure why you think this.

Let’s see.
Carney knows Finland’s President from before when they both worked in international finance.
Carney know France’s Macron from their time working for Goldman Sachs together
Carney’s deputy when at the Bank of England was the guy who is the new economic advisor to the new UK PM.
Carney knows Germany’s Chancellor Merz from when he ran Black Rock’s European division.

PP can be friendly when talking with people but he’s never worked in the business world, either inside or outside of Canada - thus he’s more than likely got no one to contact at these levels.

 

[ArmyRick]

thus he’s more than likely got no one to contact at these levels.

More than likely is not most definitely. And who in the CPC caucus knows who? It is a team not one guy. You don't know what you don't know.

 

[ArmyRick]

Let’s see.
Carney knows Finland’s President from before when they both worked in international finance.
Carney know France’s Macron from their time working for Goldman Sachs together
Carney’s deputy when at the Bank of England was the guy who is the new economic advisor to the new UK PM.
Carney knows Germany’s Chancellor Merz from when he ran Black Rock’s European division.

PP can be friendly when talking with people but he’s never worked in the business world, either inside or outside of Canada - thus he’s more than likely got no one to contact at these levels.

And by that logic, Trump knows almost the whole damn world's list of billionaires, so does that make him an excellent leader with his LARGER network? I don't think so.

Having a large and valuable network is good IF you can effectively use it.

And lets be frank, it was another chance to take a shot at Poilievre. Thats fine, just be clear about it.

 

[Czech_pivo]

And by that logic, Trump knows almost the whole damn world's list of billionaires, so does that make him an excellent leader with his LARGER network? I don't think so.

Having a large and valuable network is good IF you can effectively use it.

And lets be frank, it was another chance to take a shot at Poilievre. Thats fine, just be clear about it.

It was not.
It simply the case that one is better connected around the world than other.
Life experiences, in many different settings, in many different places makes a difference.
Am I a completely different person today because I left my home city over 30yrs ago and have lived and worked in 4 other countries besides Canada and have lived in a number of different cities in Ontario vs staying in my home city and working for the same company (like my father did for 42yrs) for the last 30+yrs? 100% yes. I see it and experience it every time I go back ‘home’ to visit my Dad, brother and friends who never left.
PP has done only the job as an MP for his entire career, all within the same city. He doesn’t have the knowledge and experience of what to do in a formal business meeting in Japan, in Finland, in Germany, as one of many many examples. He has nothing comparable to draw upon.

 

[ArmyRick]

He doesn’t have the knowledge and experience of what to do in a formal business meeting in Japan, in Finland, in Germany, as one of many many examples.

The world of politics is NOT just business meetings

Defence, crime, justice, energy, internal and external trade, environmental management, health care, etc. A government is WAY more than just business meetings.

Again, what do you know of the CPC team? I suspect you don't know much about his Mps and their experience.

More importantly, can PM MC leverage that international network to Canada's advantage? Thats what matters.

I remember when he said he could handle Trump during the campaign, and so far, thats one glaring failure.

 

[ArmyRick]

I see it and experience it every time I go back ‘home’ to visit my Dad, brother and friends who never left.

Our mayor in Grey Highlands, Paul McQueen is an excellent mayor, leader and businessman. And he has lived his whole life here in this rural town. He is in his 50s.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The world of politics is NOT just business meetings

Defence, crime, justice, energy, internal and external trade, environmental management, health care, etc. A government is WAY more than just business meetings.

Again, what do you know of the CPC team? I suspect you don't know much about his Mps and their experience.

More importantly, can PM MC leverage that international network to Canada's advantage? Thats what matters.

I remember when he said he could handle Trump during the campaign, and so far, thats one glaring failure.

I know and respect 1 MP - Mike Chong - and would support him if he held in check the religious segment of the current CPC, just like Carney has clamped down hard on the anti-oil side of the Liberal party.
Mike was my MP at on time in the past and we have similar old PC contacts/friends from our youth.
Mike also worked in the business world previously and knows the lay of the land.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Our mayor in Grey Highlands, Paul McQueen is an excellent mayor, leader and businessman. And he has lived his whole life here in this rural town. He is in his 50s.

And I wouldn’t expect him to know how to act in a formal business meeting in Asia, Latin America, the Middle East, Africa and parts of Europe.
When he’s in his own depth and environment I’m sure he’s rock solid and someone you’d want in your corner.

 

[ArmyRick]

I know and respect 1 MP - Mike Chong

From a conversation I have had with my MP when he was visiting my farm, Mike is very loyal to Pierre. Take that for what it is worth.

check the religious segment of the current CPC

Ohhh? Are they pushing religious bills all the time? Hell, the CBC doesn't even bring this up and they are rabidly anti-CBC

When he’s in his own depth and environment

Now, you hit the nail on the head. EVERYONE has their strengths and limitations. PM MC has a very international and monetary based experiences to draw from. He speaks well to the bloomberg agencies but has struggled when dealing with MSM on issues not within his comfort zone.

On that note, Pierre is pretty much a better public orator than Mark.