The Weasel

[George Wallace]

We have talked about the Weasel on several of our threads here, and perhaps we should devote a whole topic to it as an Armoured Vehicle to seriously look at.  It is a German tracked vehicle.  It was developed in the late 1980's-early 1990's.  It is small and comes in several different variants.  It has several variants that would make a good mix to use in a Reconnaissance Regiment.  A Chinook can carry three inside and one or two slung underneath. 

I have found German military vehicles to be well designed and thought out, easily serviced and rugged.  They are very 'user friendly'. 

Would this 'older' piece of kit be what we should be looking at for a RECCE vehicle to replace our Lynx and Iltis fleets.  The Lynx has been gone for several years, and no 'true' Recce vehicle has replaced it in the Reg Force.  The Weasel would be a common replacement for both Reg and Res Recce vehicles, giving both the Reg and Res a common vehicle and training.

GW

 

[devil39]

George,

The Weasel is a veh   the AirMechStrike guys in the US proposed in their counterpoint to the LAV/Stryker based US Interim Brigade Combat Teams (IBCT).   It has some fairly smart guys behind the proposal (Lester Grau, David Grange, Huba Was de Czege), and argues LAV is too heavy and expensive for what the US requires in the IBCT for the interim period between current â Å“Legacyâ ? forces and the development of the Future Combat System (FCS).

http://www.geocities.com/air_mech_strike/

Their proposed (cheaper) option would consist of stripped down M113s, BV 206, Weasel, etc.   The entire Brigade should be Air Assault and/or Airborne capable, with the ability to deploy into the Operational and Strategic depth of the enemy.   When they get there, these vehs would give them greater tactical mobility than the current US Air Assault or Airborne forces are capable of.  

Conceptually very interesting, and they have considered the logistical issues (FARP requirements) inherent in this type of force and employment.

The book is well worth the read, but disjointed and poorly edited.    I have not heard any feedback on some of the AirMechStrike guys future airlift concepts.

 

[George Wallace]

Looks like a good read.

Couple of warning bells going off with the mention of "Gavins" and the prominence of LT Michael L. Sparks, Infantry USAR, in many of the documents.  These are very one sided discussions and very 'anti-wheeled'.

GW

 

[Lance Wiebe]

For those that are not aware of all of the various models of the Weasel (Wiesel in Duetche), the following two links will help.

http://www.rheinmetall-ls.de/fahrzeuge_komponenten/leichte_fahrzeuge/pages_englisch/wiesel1.htm

http://www.rheinmetall-ls.de/fahrzeuge_komponenten/leichte_fahrzeuge/pages_englisch/wiesel2.htm

Some of you may be aware that I think that this vehicle should be in our inventory, especially with the reserves.  For those worried about tracks, the track is rubber, and results in no damage to improved roads, and very little damage (less than wheels) cross country.

 

[MG34]

Yes Sparks is a complete tool,and about the only person other than his uninformed disciples that refer to the M113 as a "Gavin".His anti-wheel agenda has been going on for quite some time and is pretty much without a basis in real facts.The Weasal is a capable recce vehicle small in size and good engine and is somewhat modular in design with several variants.It lacks the high tech dood dads that are all the rage nowadays and relies more on crew competance and skill.A good buy too as it is inexpensive.
Would it fill a niche in canada for sure,at the very least it would add some armour to the reserve's so called armoured recce units .
It would make an excellent wingman to the Coyote as well as it could actually get in close and be able to get out as well.it could also take up local security for the Coyote when the mast is deployed.
A good little vehicle but I wouldn't count on any being in Canadian service ever.

 

[G .Dundas]

Actually a delightful little vehicle and a rather sexy lil beast.(hmm methinks I need to get out more   :-[ ) Allways thought it would have made a nice stablemate to the british Scorpion in the recce role much the way we used the Staghound/Lynx I combo during the last major great unpleasentness.         
 

                                                  :tank: 


                                      regards ,Gordon Dundas

 

[Coyote43D]

Yes Sparks is a complete tool,and about the only person other than his uninformed disciples that refer to the M113 as a "Gavin".His anti-wheel agenda has been going on for quite some time and is pretty much without a basis in real facts.The Weasal is a capable recce vehicle small in size and good engine and is somewhat modular in design with several variants.It lacks the high tech dood dads that are all the rage nowadays and relies more on crew competance and skill.A good buy too as it is inexpensive.
Would it fill a niche in canada for sure,at the very least it would add some armour to the reserve's so called armoured recce units .
It would make an excellent wingman to the Coyote as well as it could actually get in close and be able to get out as well.it could also take up local security for the Coyote when the mast is deployed.
A good little vehicle but I wouldn't count on any being in Canadian service ever.

One of the variants in the first link has most of the same doodads that the Coyote has minus the radar. Being Recce myself, I agree that we need something like the Weasel, the Coyote is better suited to surveillance than actual sneak and peek recce. It's   too big and you can hear the the Jake brake kick in from miles away.


BTW: How are things up in wally world Lance?

 

[Lance Wiebe]

I keep touting this for the reserves.  I'll tell you why.  It's cheap, easy to maintain, is one of the best recce vehicles out there, can protect itself, (they normally operate in pairs, one TOW paired with a 20 variant), gives the reserves a "Raison d'Etre", and best of all, they are a hoot to drive, will attract recruits to the reserves like nothing else will, and fill a void in the reg force.

What's not to like?

And hey, I can't say anything bad about Wally World.  I'm a pussy eyed civilian, repairing broken sims.  What's not to like there, either? ;D

 

[Coyote43D]

And hey, I can't say anything bad about Wally World.   I'm a ***** eyed civilian, repairing broken sims.   What's not to like there, either? ;D

You can't say anything bad about Wally World and I can't say anuthing good about it which is why I try to avoid it like the plague. Don't get me started on what's not to like there. 

 

[Yard Ape]

I'd throw my support behind the Weasel.  The Weasel 1 looks best for recce due to its being smaller yet still having the firepower for self defence.  The Weasel 2 could be bought to fill supporting roles (CP, Amb, ARV(L), etc) to the recce force based on the smaller original.

 

[G .Dundas]

Looks like a good read.

Couple of warning bells going off with the mention of "Gavins" and the prominence of LT Michael L. Sparks, Infantry USAR, in many of the documents.   These are very one sided discussions and very 'anti-wheeled'.

GW

      Gotta love Mike Sparks ! The man may yet put the air mech concept back 20 yrs by the simple expeideant of being it's loudest proponant.
Some yrs. back I was a non particpant in one of sparky's one man flame wars. I weighed in very politely with an opinion.And for for my troubles got a series of insulting e-mails.
And as I recall maybe the only person to ever be banned twice from the Tanknet .org site

 

[George Wallace]

Yes Sparky's views are not well recieved over at Tank.Net. 

I noticed a few days ago, up in the New Members box there was a MCpl_Sparks and then later a Michael Sparks, neither of whom seem to be members yet in any of the forums.  Their email addresses were both the same  hotmail accounts in thier bios.  Perhaps he is trying to come here.

Gw

 

[Lance Wiebe]

There is a MCpl Sparks, FCS Tech, in Gagetown.

 

[Infanteer]

I'm sold on the Weasel, especially as a reservist Armour assest; I could see it fitting into a reserve structure reform that I proposed earlier quite well.  I could also see a suitable case for the French VB-1.

Does anyone see the merit of starting a new thread on the subject of approches to light/medium/heavy forces?  I've been reading some interesting material on how the US approach to teh LAV chassis is quite inapproriate towards "medium weight" forces and that the US Army's approach to doctrine has completely overlooked more successful intergration of wheeled forces by many European states.

What do you guys think?

 

[George Wallace]

Infanteer

Start her up.  We'll see how she flys.

GW

 

[Lance Wiebe]

Heck yeah.

I'm sure that there are more than enough people with their expert opinions!

 

[Infanteer]

It has some fairly smart guys behind the proposal (Lester Grau, David Grange, Huba Was de Czege), and argues LAV is too heavy and expensive for what the US requires in the IBCT for the interim period between current â Å“Legacyâ ? forces and the development of the Future Combat System (FCS).

I recognize those names; Lester Grau is a good writer on Soviet/Russian military doctrine while Huba Was de Czege is constantly referred to in books recommending changes to Army personnel and organizational changes.  I haven't heard about David Grange too much and I don't know who the hell Lt. Michael Sparks is, but I think I remember him posting as "Sam Damon Jr" at SOCNET and getting banned for constantly trying to pimp that "Airmech" book on every forum over there.

 

[Genetk44]

the Weasel is definately an interesting looking little vehicle....but I question its' cross-country ability in mud or snow...those tracks look pretty narrow.....lets not forget past history and narrow tracks :
Gene

 

[12alfa]

I too also like it, along with the Simitar.

 

[Infanteer]

I was on a Course with a British Corporal who commanded a Scimitar and he said the thing was a piece of shit.  I wasn't going to argue with him, seeing how he'd been driving it for a decade or so....