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The Whole New Knife, Liz May, Gear Up, Racism Merged Thread

I think the #1 Yachtsmen knife version is issued to Bosun's and the like in the Navy...is it not?  I've known 1 Bosun who had it issued to them.  I remembering asking "wtf is the big needle for?"  ;D
 
I know the guys out in Trail (44 FES or what ever the flavour of the day is) got those issued but only to those that had completed the BBE Course
 
Eye In The Sky said:
I think the #1 Yachtsmen knife version is issued to Bosun's and the like in the Navy...is it not?  I've known 1 Bosun who had it issued to them.  I remembering asking "wtf is the big needle for?"  ;D

They're held on the Ship's MAST (kind of akin to the Army's CFFET) account.
 
Eye In The Sky said:
I think the #1 Yachtsmen knife version is issued to Bosun's and the like in the Navy...is it not?  I've known 1 Bosun who had it issued to them.  I remembering asking "wtf is the big needle for?"  ;D

Issued or bought depends on the ship. That "needle" is called a marlin spike and at times its a piece of crucial safety equipment. Nothing at all to mock!
 
Ex-Dragoon said:
Issued or bought depends on the ship. That "needle" is called a marlin spike and at times its a piece of crucial safety equipment. Nothing at all to mock!

Ex-D...it was a joke between friends, and I got mine back for it  :D
 
Everybody and their dog had one in 1CER, the Tp get's attached to the Bn for a tour and guess what the Coy gift was?

facepalmsmilie.gif
 
It is interesting that Grohmann claims to have recieved several complaints about the other knife yet there has not been a single UCR submitted.  I'm not saying it has not happened, just that I find it odd that service personel would complain directly to a manufacture in large numbers while at the same time not a single one would make the effort to formally complain to the military.
 
I found it wasn't a bad knife.
Not a great knife - but not a bad one either.
- Kept a reasonnable edge to the blade BUT, then again, I got mine +/- 1973 when the Russell boat knife was made by the "Russell" company
 
I suspect that it was the same for the C5. It was on the fighting order and there it stayed as it was easier to use a personal pocket knife.

I'm suprised that nobody bothered to fill out a UCR given all the complaints!
 
MCG said:
not a single one would make the effort to formally complain to the military.

Why - just to be told that they're "not using it properly"?

Seriously, though, most people have come to believe that UCRs are a waste of time based upon how long it takes to see results ... if ever.
 
Stabbed in the back
Pictou firm loses military contract to Chinese copies
By MONICA GRAHAM
Wed. Sep 17 - 1:54 PM



GREY_mg0916grohmann_Metro_09-17-08_FF9A60L.jpg

Michelle Jamieson, co-owner of Grohmann Knives in Pictou, holds a knife that was supplied to the Canadian Armed Forces until the government decided to buy cheaper ones made in China. (MONICA GRAHAM)

PICTOU — It’s bad enough that a company in the defence minister’s home riding of Central Nova has lost a contract to supply knives to Canadian Forces paratroopers.

But to add insult to injury, some people who now have the knock-off knives have been calling Grohmann Knives Ltd. in Pictou to complain about their quality, said company co-owner Michelle Jamieson.


"It’s poor workmanship, it’s terrible, it’s crappy," Ms. Jamieson quoted the callers as saying.

She said the callers are also concerned about whether the knives are safe. But neither Ms. Jamieson nor the company’s co-owner, Mike Babinec Jr., who is also her father, have seen the knock-offs.

"We’ve been told it looks very similar to our knife," she said.

Ms. Jamieson said Grohmann has put a disclaimer on its website in response to the complaints.

She said she has been told the knock-off has the word valour stamped on it and it is labelled Made in China.

The No. 3 model of the D.H. Russell belt knife, designed by Deane Russell and Rudolph Grohmann in the 1950s, was supplied to the Canadian Armed Forces from 1964 to 2006.

It was issued to paratroopers, who used it for cutting their parachute harnesses during dangerous landings in water or when they became entangled.

Two years ago, Ottawa opted to buy army-issue knives from Gear Up Motors, which offered to supply 2,400 knives at a cost of $40 each.

Stanley Pioro of Richmond, Ont., owns the company.

Any national bid on a contract worth about $100,000 or more must go to tender, and Mr. Pioro was able to offer a comparable product for a lower price, Defence Minister Peter MacKay said in a telephone interview Tuesday.

The Armed Forces has received no complaints about the Pioro knife, Mr. MacKay said.

"Surely someone isn’t suggesting that I rig the procurement process in favour of a local contractor," the defence minister said, insisting that he would not do that.

Mr. MacKay said he has not seen the Pioro knife and did not know where it was made, but he owns a Grohmann-made Russell belt knife himself and frequently buys them as gifts.

The knife, made of German steel, retails for about $90, but Grohmann offered a significant discount for buying in bulk, Ms. Jamieson said.

The company supplied up to 6,000 knives a year to the Canadian Armed Forces over the last few decades. It continues to fill smaller orders for the Canadian Coast Guard and other military branches.

Mr. Babinec spoke with Mr. MacKay and Gen. Rick Hillier about the issue when they toured the Water Street factory in June. But Ms. Jamieson said company officials didn’t receive a reply until Mr. MacKay contacted Mr. Babinec on Tuesday to describe the procurement process.

Meanwhile, his father, Mike Babinec Sr., again mentioned the problem during a factory tour earlier this week by Green Party Leader Elizabeth May, who is opposing Mr. MacKay for the Central Nova seat.

Ms. May said she was shocked that the government had ignored Grohmann’s reputation for quality and reliability and awarded the contract based solely on cost.

"My next thought was what kind of other shoddy non-Canadian goods are being purchased for our soldiers in cost-cutting measures?" Ms. May said in a news release Tuesday.

She said there appears to be a bias against contract bids submitted from Atlantic Canada. Ms. May noted that a submarine retrofit contract also went to British Columbia.

Grohmann has not followed up on copyright or patent infringement issues, Ms. Jamieson said.

She said she is upset that someone could make cheaper knock-offs of the company’s knives and then sell them to one of the firm’s major clients.

"It was designed by Canadians for Canadians," she said.

Ms. Jamieson said she would like to see steps taken to help Canadian manufacturers win contracts like the one her company lost.

Such measures would ensure that local people keep their jobs and that the government receives quality products, she said.

"We have a quality product," Ms. Jamieson said.

Mr. MacKay said he always supports local industry, but many Canadian products have components from China.

Grohmann was founded by Ms. Jamieson’s great-grandfather in 1961.

Rudolph Grohmann went to Pictou from a German area of Czechoslovakia in 1949 to work at a cutlery company.

When it folded, Mr. Grohmann started making knives in his garage, winning international awards in the ensuing years. The company employs about 25 people who make outdoor, kitchen and specialty knives.


MCG said:
In any case, the contract did not go to a Chinese company.  The bid was won by a distributor in Ontario.



Information on the new supplier and the knife;

Gear Up Motors
http://www.maxus.ca/index.htm

Mr. Stan Pioro
Owner/Sales
Gear Up Motors
3463 McBean Street
P.O. Box 854
Richmond, Ontario
K0A 2Z0

His company can be found on the www.made-in-china.com vendor index.

http://www.made-in-china.com/import-export/YWExITfPWQLeprofile1/Gear-Up-Motors.html

Which is how the made in China disclaimer is from, by MAXUS, when actuality they are made by a company called Sanyo Enterprises based out of Pakistan.

http://www.sanyoenter.com/

He is an exclusive dealer for Sanyo Enterprises products that claims the following

http://www.sanyoenter.com/about.htm

_________________________

There you have it members of milnet.  I have a passion for knives, swords and various period pieces.  I can tell you that Pakistan is a major manufacturer of these types of products.  The quality ranges from very good to poor.  I have purchased some fine Damascus metal from Pakistan that I use when making knives, for a good investment, to the crapiest that bends like lead and is only "painted" to look like damascus steel.

It appears the Government has done just that.  I did not do a search of the knife Canada has procured, as I do not know what it looks like, however, I am sure they did not go after quality.  They went after quantity.

Further to that, Sanyo Enterprises makes helmets.  One of which is a horned “Viking” Norse style helmet.  They never historically existed, for the fact Horns in that matter would be a hindrance in battle, specifically the shield wall.  (I know, I am a geek)

I love my Grohmann knives.  Every one of them served me well.  The soft steel , was something as an amateur, I thought was annoying.  The reason for this is that it allows you to do all sorts of work, and be able to sharpen the blade easily in any condition and get a razor sharp edge.  Harder steel requires professional, or knowledgeable sharpeners to get their edge back.  You would be able to use any Grohmann, beat it up, and after a some quiet time be able to get a sharp edge with ease.

The Swiss went through the same capitalist bidding war growing pains,  it is a shame we were not able to do what they did and keep an icon of the Canadian Military, Canadian.  I think Elizabeth May is bang on in attcking this one.





dileas

tess
 
the 48th regulator said:
Stabbed in the back
Two years ago, Ottawa opted to buy army-issue knives from Gear Up Motors, which offered to supply 2,400 knives at a cost of $40 each.

Stanley Pioro of Richmond, Ont., owns the company.

Any national bid on a contract worth about $100,000 or more must go to tender, and Mr. Pioro was able to offer a comparable product for a lower price, Defence Minister Peter MacKay said in a telephone interview Tuesday.

There is a contract awarded to Gear Up Motors.

"Surely someone isn’t suggesting that I rig the procurement process in favour of a local contractor," the defence minister said, insisting that he would not do that.

Has he been visiting this site and stealing my lines??  >:D

The knife, made of German steel, retails for about $90, but Grohmann offered a significant discount for buying in bulk, Ms. Jamieson said.

Apparently, not enough of a bulk discount to make them any cheaper than the company who did win the contract.

The company supplied up to 6,000 knives a year to the Canadian Armed Forces over the last few decades. It continues to fill smaller orders for the Canadian Coast Guard and other military branches.

What!!?? This would be highly illegal. If there is a National Contract in place, then ALL CF military Units (even small ones) are legally obligated to obtain their knives from the Contracted supplier ... that means, in this case, Gear Up Motors. I wouldn't want to be the one whose Acquisition Card is being used to purchase from a non-contracted supplier. I do so hope that she means ... from "other military branches OUTSIDE of the Canadian Forces."

Ms. May said she was shocked that the government had ignored Grohmann’s reputation for quality and reliability and awarded the contract based solely on cost.

"My next thought was what kind of other shoddy non-Canadian goods are being purchased for our soldiers in cost-cutting measures?" Ms. May said in a news release Tuesday.

Bull. The company awarded the contract MUST have complied with the milspecs. The awarding of contracts is NOT based soley on price.

She said there appears to be a bias against contract bids submitted from Atlantic Canada. Ms. May noted that a submarine retrofit contract also went to British Columbia.

Wow. Between Atlantic Canada and Quebec ... I don't think anyone should feel "neglected" in the way of federal contracts.  ::)

Ms. Jamieson said she would like to see steps taken to help Canadian manufacturers win contracts like the one her company lost.

Such measures would ensure that local people keep their jobs and that the government receives quality products, she said.

"We have a quality product," Ms. Jamieson said.

She really means "her" company.
 
Vern,

I will say this.

Being someone, on the civillian side, who has worked on winning government contratcts, it is all about the dollar.

If you meet the specs, and are lower, you win.

Don't confuse driving the spec, with chasing it, please.

dileas

tess
 
the 48th regulator said:
Vern,

I will say this.

Being someone, on the civillian side, who has worked on winning government contratcts, it is all about the dollar.

If you meet the specs, and are lower, you win.

Don't confuse driving the spec, with chasing it, please.

dileas

tess

I'm not confusing it.

But you can rest assured that she is well aware of how contracts work ... Her Company having been the benficiary of such for many years. She is well aware of the bold bit of your statement (my bold added - this time --- it wasn't her that was the "winner").

Read her statements as she now plays "poor me" with the politicians --- and plays "naive" as to the working of contracts and Mil Specs.

Certainly sounds like whining to me. Funny how that works during election time isn't it?
 
ArmyVern said:
I'm not confusing it.

But you can rest assured that she is well aware of how contracts work ... Her Company having been the benficiary of such for many years. She is well aware of the bold bit of your statement (my bold added - this time --- it wasn't her that was the "winner").

Read her statements as she now plays "poor me" with the politicians --- and plays "naive" as to the working of contracts and Mil Specs.

Certainly sounds like whining to me. Funny how that works during election time isn't it?

Fair enough,

Do you think the Government did well in purchasing offshore copies, as opposed to looking for an improved model by another manufacturer?

dileas

tess
 
the 48th regulator said:
, as opposed to looking for an improved model by another manufacturer?

If another manufacturer could provide the knives that both met the specs and at a lower cost than the ones purchased, they should have bid on the contract.
 
CDN Aviator said:
If another manufacturer could provide the knives that both met the specs and at a lower cost than the ones purchased, they should have bid on the contract.

Actually, as one working in sales, I agree.

Well, I hope it meets the expectations of the knife we have used for ver 40 years.  Good on Stanley Pioro and his company, Gear Up Motors, for playing the game as I would have.

I am glad that our soldiers appreciate cheeper procurment, as opposed traditional product.

dileas

tess
 
the 48th regulator said:
Actually, as one working in sales, I agree.

Well, I hope it meets the expectations of the knife we have used for ver 40 years.  Good on Stanley Pioro and his company, Gear Up Motors, for playing the game as I would have.

I am glad that our soldiers appreciate cheeper procurment, as opposed traditional product.

dileas

tess

I can certainly appreciate that the new contracted knife meets the milspecs and allows us to put budget monies saved by getting an item that conforms with and meets milspecs at a lower price towards other things that are required (chest rigs etc). She may not like the fact that her company lost the contract, but "tradition" has nothing to do with contracts and seems to be OK to be done away with in other things 'military' and is deemed acceptable by some no?

And from the article:

The No. 3 model of the D.H. Russell belt knife, designed by Deane Russell and Rudolph Grohmann in the 1950s, was supplied to the Canadian Armed Forces from 1964 to 2006.

I can also appreciate the fact that she is suddenly coming out with her "woe is me tale" TWO years after losing the contract. During an election campaign. I smell a WHOLE LOT of bias built into that little tidbit.

Being she's had contracts before and fully knows and understands how the process works - despite her outright protestations otherwise  ::) - she knows full well that her whining is not going to put the contract back into her hands (unless of course she actually "wins" the next time that contract's due instead of "loses") but it sure is making a good political statement isn't it? And, if you're naive enough to think for one minute her sudden "naivetee (read dishonesty) about contracts" and "timing" are not all about politics and votes ...

I've got a knife I made here at home to sell you. Cheap too. You'd love it. It comes in Green - certified IAW VernSpecs.  :o
 
Being in supply I thought you would understand the shipment of goods.

2006 might have been the last shipment, however who knows if the contract stipulated the inventory amount.....i.e each shipment of goods provided to the CF will be every 1...2....3 years supply worth.

I doubt that each knife was individually sold to the military, as per the demand to to issue....

dileas

tess
 
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