Thoughts on deployment/rotation length & HLTA

[Scoobs]

All non-Combat Arms are not automatically doing 9 month tours.  I wanted to give more details but thought better due to OPSEC.

Believe me, a 9 and a half month tour is long enough.

By far, our HLTA, pay, benefits, etc. is the best compared to other nations.  I personally feel sorry for the US Army that has to do 15 month tours with a measly one R&R (their version of HLTA).  The ones that I have spoken to don't like the 15 month tours.

By the way, all of this talk of extending tours is coming from the press.  It was their idea to drum up a story where none existed before.  The US Defence Secretary made some comments about troop deployments not being long enough for some countries and of course our good old Canadian press jump on the bandwagon and automatically assume that the Canadian leadership are going to increase our deployment lengths.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm glad they said no, that would have been like two and a half years of work up training.

 

[Pte_Martin]

By the way, all of this talk of extending tours is coming from the press.  It was their idea to drum up a story where none existed before.  The US Defence Secretary made some comments about troop deployments not being long enough for some countries and of course our good old Canadian press jump on the bandwagon and automatically assume that the Canadian leadership are going to increase our deployment lengths.

It's not only the press. At 3 RCR we were told that we will be there between 7-9 months and our OC said if he was a betting man it will be around the 8 month mark

 

[JAFMA]

Looks like no.

"Top soldier says no plan to extend troop rotations"

First of all do you really think that Gen Hiller is going to tell anyone that they are planning to increase the rotations until it is carved in stone and it is a done deal, lets face it the man is too bloody smart to get caught in something like that.  So don't believe everything that you read in the news

As for extending the tour by 3 months sure why not and as for SML take it at the end of the tour.

I seem to recall something in my training many moons ago about some studies showing that in order to have even basic level of SA you have to be on the ground for at least 3 - 4 weeks and that is so you won't shoot yourself or your buddy.  When you are at least 2 months into the tour you are fully up to speed and are keyed up and totally SA.  Then SML hits and when you come back you have to tighten up your shit again and think about not getting hurt and making it home safe and sound so now your not taking the calculated risks that you would have taken prior to your SML and now your a liability to yourself and your comrades.

So I think that maybe it might be a good idea to give SML at the end of the tour, but to make sure that the troops get some down time maybe a couple of R&R centers something for 48 to 72 hours at a place where the troops can let down their hair to a certain degree with the minimum of restrictions. 

As for the pre-deployment training, is there any real need to change it hell most of the roto's that I have had anything to do with trained for at least six months before going over anyway so no matter how you slice it you can say good buy to the wife and kiddies for a year now anyway.

The short of it, it is a numbers game with the number of pers releasing, retiring and not resigning we are running short so the bean counters at Disney on the Rideau have to figure on a way to make the number that we do have work.  So any of you folks out there that are thinking that this is not going to happen then you had better put on your battle rattle and ruck-up.  As for myself I would have no problems in doing a nine or twelve month tour just so long as I can have a couple of blues now and again and can get in some good PTT.

 

[PuckChaser]

My roto (TF3-07) did 7 months, and TF 1-08 was told they were doing 7 months as well. Apparently this is becoming the standard for the Battlegroup pers, 7 to 7.5 month rotations.

 

[acheo]

Still I wonder how many employers would support up to a year of leave for those who have a full time job.

or wives?????

 

[daftandbarmy]

More than a year, with the workup training beforehand....  I know of reservists who've had to go to public sector employers on the current ROTO saying, "uh, yeah, I know I booked x months, but it looks more likely now that I'll be coming back to work in x+2 or 3 months".  MG's right - how would the owner of a smaller private sector business (maybe family owned/run) feel about losing someone for that length of time?

You mean like me?

On the one hand, it would be easy... just leave the business running and head for the desert trusting that all will be well. On the other hand, I might return to a train wreck with absolutely no hope of the military being able to help me out if me and my staff are unemployed, I have to declare bankruptcy, and all my clients are pi**ed off. And there's no legislation that can fix that scenario for the self-employed entrepreneur.

My choice. And right now my choice would probably be 'no friggin' way'. My challenge is to get my company into a place where it's fully self-sustaining, and my family is OK, then head off. This is, as you can imagine, a huge effort and a huge risk.

This may be one of the reasons that you won't find many self-employed people attracted to the reserves, but I could be wrong (sometimes am!).

D&B

 

[X-mo-1979]

While on a personal level an extended tour of 9-15 months might cause difficulties, it will actually improve things in the sandbox since there will be a greater level of corporate knowledge by the troops in the field, and (assuming HLTA isn't increased by a corresponding amount), the numbers of boots on the ground will actually increase overall. Our US and UK brethren only have 2 weeks leave (for a 15 month deployment in the case of American soldiers), so our time off seems a bit extravagant. Removed by moderator.

So 15 month roto....So with the work up training and being away for a year from the deployment date isn't it just as well to stay for 3 years and get posted back?Just as well,then give us two years back in country.

We like to compare to other army's,yet when I was talking to a couple airborne Ssgt's in Texas they had 60 days work up training,then on the plane to Kuwait.It blows my mind how much work up training a professional army needs to deploy for 6 months.And then to return for 6 months and begin the process again.Redundant time away from family.

 

[St. Michael]

Just curious.
I am slated to be on roto 1-09 with the Battle Group.
The rumour (from a credible source) is going around that it will indeed be a 7 and a half month tour for us as well as for those already there from Shilo and Edmonton and for the next ones ( Pet).
The idea being saving a tour between now and December 2011.
Does anyone have any reliable info on the issue?
I will serve anyway, but families and wives etc.., need to be prepared and we need to plan stuff so it will be easier for them. :warstory:

 

[muskrat89]

Does anyone have any reliable info on the issue?

Your C of C isn't reliable?  ???

 

[St. Michael]

It is reliable, but says it is a rumour...

 

[helpup]

In other words it is thier best guess as they have not got it written in stone yet.

 

[vonGarvin]

This is worth resurrection.  HLTA is what I will discuss.
I hate it.  I think it should be scrapped.  Just look at the time and effort to train people up, send them over, and then send them "on a break" just because we have to, and not when they are ready for it.  Some dudes will show up, do a few weeks, and then be off on HLTA, only to return and then do six consecutive months.  The units are then strapped for manpower (trust me: it hurts).  I say screw HLTA.  If some bean counter somewhere says "they need it", well, they can take a long walk off a short pier as far as I am concerned.  For anyone who suggests that the troops deserve that time off, well, those troops who want that time off can stay home. 
There are plenty of ways for troops in theatre to get a break.  Heck, it would probably be easier if we were at a 100% steady state, and rotated back say 2-3% (if possible) to KAF or elsewhere just to have a fresh shower, get a haircut, watch a movie, do whatever.  But we can't do that now because we are at much less than the 97-98%. 
If it's about the money and time off, block book time off for everyone at the end of the tour with 3K in their pocket and carte blanche for two weeks' of leave.  (On top of the regular post-deployment leave).
Thoughts?  Or is going down to ~80% effective strength as a steady state worth it?

(Personally, i will enjoy my HLTA, but if they took it from me for SERVICE before SELF, well, that's fine too)

 

[Celticgirl]

HLTA is what I will discuss.
I hate it.  I think it should be scrapped. 

If you think the Taliban is a force to be reckoned with, you should round up a group of military wives and say "HLTA should be scrapped" and see what happens to you.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Having never been deployed I tread very lightly on things like this but just from my gut feeling I agree with MR above.

I think I would rather do the tour, get some extra "free" holidays and not have to look back. It would appear to me that to break up the tour means I would have to put up with 2 episodes of "shaking it rough". [an expression we use to describe how an inmate feels/acts the two weeks before his release date]

 

[muffin]

If you think the Taliban is a force to be reckoned with, you should round up a group of military wives and say "HLTA should be scrapped" and see what happens to you.

I was just thinking the same thing,... lol

Last time hubby deployed his HLTA got pushed back due to "an administrative mixup" and he was gone nearly 5 months before he was home. That was a long stretch for me and the kids. You can't give to some and not to others base on family/marital status,... so everyone gets it.

It isn't just about the guys in theater getting a break... they used to have R&R for that.

 

[GAP]

Maybe something like the USMC used in FMF PAC would work

Our tours were 13 months.

You were eligible for a 5 day R&R at specific places. In our case it was Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Sydney, Hawaii, and a couple of others. All easily accessible, none on CONUS....

Travel time did not count, so if you got delayed, you weren't gypped of "your" time.

The military transported you to the R&R city via commercial means and back. All told the average R&R took about 11 days once in 13 months. We waited with baited breath for those days to arrive, and lord help the person getting in our way.

We also had in country R&R of 3 days and 1day travel each way. I only got one of these because of the tempo we were operating at, but China Beach was sure sweet.....

Sooooo.....maybe instead of HLTA there be a "China Beach" type R&R instead of HLTA....

 

[vonGarvin]

If you think the Taliban is a force to be reckoned with, you should round up a group of military wives and say "HLTA should be scrapped" and see what happens to you.

I'll take my chances with the Taliban, thank you very much ;D

But, seriously, perhaps some navy folks on here should weigh in.  When a ship deploys to say the Gulf for a six month stint, how many HLTAs do they get?  (I honestly don't know the answer to this one)  Can a ship operate at 85% (steady state)?  I know that ships put alongside for a bit of "shore leave", but just as a ship needs all hands on deck (metaphorically), so too does a Battlegroup, no?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Was there not talk of having HLTA on masse at the end of the tour (and no I don't mean the couple days in Cyprus).

A break allows for (for the most part) troops to be able to unwind from being on constant alert which as I am sure I don't need to tell anyone can be mentally exhausting.  That's just me and I know there are guys that did go out the wire that didn't want HLTA either.

 

[catalyst]

Since this is an HLTA thread, I was wondering if anyone knows the current HLTA rate/dollar amount for KAF?

(appologies for the interjection)